Help choosing a new non-DSLR camera to replace G12

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Cumbo

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Location
Finland
# of dives
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I've been using my G12 for about 2 years now and am starting to feel like it's time to update. I'm currently using a G12 in WP-DC34 housing with ULCS arms, tray, clamps etc. and 2 * Inon-D2000 Type 4 (in sTTL, not eTTL). I also have a Divervision mount base for 67 mm macro lenses (I have Dyron 67 mm and 77 mm, which I can stack).

I am now really struggling trying to find a camera (non-DSLR, because of the size and weight). I've (I think) narrowed it down to Olympus and Sony. The models I'm currently thinking about are:
(- Olympus E-PL3) <--- what's the difference between this and E-PL5?
- Olympus E-PL5
- Olympus OMD EM5
- Sony NEX-5n
- Sony NEX-5r
- Sony NEX-6
- Sony NEX-7

Some of the factors, that are important to me are:
- picture and video quality (FullHD is a must) - obviously (I understand Sony has a bit larger sensor)
- camera size and weight
- internal flash (I fear, that taking photos on land in the dark is limited, because I don't want to keep a separate flash with me the whole time) --> do all the cameras which don't have internal fl
- housing size/weight/price
- compatible with my ULCS tray
- I can still keep on using my 67 mm macro diopters (as I do love macro)
- I'd rather not buy a separate lens for every occasion
- TTL in manual mode - is it possible with these cameras?

Also, I have liked the 'C1' and 'C2' modes in G12, which enable you to set certain settings and zoom positions. Do these cameras have such?

There's been a lot of talk of (electronic or lack of such) viewfinders in these cameras. What's the big deal? Aren't the pictures taken underwater by watching the screen?


Any advice?
 
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the best out there now is the RX100...interceptor121 can give you better details than i can. i love it but i don't think i would've been disappointed with the G15 (which i have coming) or S110...i was interested in the XZ-2 but i have read a few things about AF speed issues in posts on DP review.
 
the best out there now is the RX100...interceptor121 can give you better details than i can. i love it but i don't think i would've been disappointed with the G15 (which i have coming) or S110...i was interested in the XZ-2 but i have read a few things about AF speed issues in posts on DP review.

Thanks for the reply.

Not having interchangeable lenses is a dealbreaker for me as I do want to get good wide angle as well as good macro. Also, the smaller sensor in RX-100 is an issue for me.

Any other suggestions?
 
my bad...i didn't fully read your post before replying :(. i believe the E-PL5 uses the same sensor as the OM-D and the E-PL3 uses a lesser sensor. having just switched to a Sony SLT-A65, i'd be tempted to go NEX7 or NEX6...not sure how the lens options are but the IQ on the Sony cameras is excellent.
 
E-pl5 is 16mp and E-pl3 is 12mp, The sony nex7 is real nice but more expensive. Of course with any of these cameras you have to take into account that a $500 camera is going to cost you another $1000-1500 for some lenses to do WA and MAcro plus dome ports on your housing. Ultimatly I went Olympus after weighing similar options.
 
Honestly, are any of those significant upgrades above the G12? It almost looks like you're trading for "different" instead of "better." Yea I know some of those have some advantages but they seem like incremental upgrades. I don't think the G15 would even be that much better.

To be blunt, I think you need to bite the bullet and move to a DSLR. You'll be able to still use most of the gear you have. Sell the rest and put it towards a good DSLR and housing.

-Charles
 
As still camera I would recommend the Sony RX100 offers great choice of lenses and outstanding performance after that is DSLR

RX-100 does indeed have a bigger sensor - probably the thing that bothers me most in G12 (i.e. too small a sensor). I just feel that I want to get better pictures and G12 can't do really high ISO or good wide angle with WP-DC34. For macro, I am pretty satisfied, even though with two diopters stacked, the depth of field is close to non-existent - so getting smaller aperture than f/8 would be nice.

Also, RX-100 doesn't offer changeable lenses, which is one thing I also am missing (I do take photos topside, too).

Other than that, RX-100 is pretty impressive as I just now took a closer look at it. The things, that it's missing is (better) high ISO performance, changeable lenses, smaller minimum aperture for macro (it's f/11, I believe) and a bigger sensor.

Honestly, are any of those significant upgrades above the G12? It almost looks like you're trading for "different" instead of "better." Yea I know some of those have some advantages but they seem like incremental upgrades. I don't think the G15 would even be that much better.

To be blunt, I think you need to bite the bullet and move to a DSLR. You'll be able to still use most of the gear you have. Sell the rest and put it towards a good DSLR and housing.

-Charles

The thing with DSLRs is, that they are BIG and HEAVY and their housing are not only BIG and HEAVY but also cost $$$$$. I travel with the camera and really don't want to keep carrying a DSLR with me the whole time. :)

G15 is a bit better than G12, but still: the sensor is really small, which rules it out.
 
I'm also thinking of upgrading my setup (G12 in Canon housing and a single Inon S2000 with Inon UCL 165 M67 lens). I love the G12 and the manual control wheels (even if in my housing I need to use the shortcut button to adjust aperture and shutter speed), its great macro capability and its smallish size.
I just think I need something better for wide angle (I work in Komodo now, so plenty of mantas to photograph). My choices are:

1) Get a G12 Recsea/Patima/FIX housing and a wide angle lens. Problem with this: costs a lot for a setup where I don't upgrade my camera (which is very good, but still...). And the good wide angle lenses options on these housings are dry mount, not wet. If I have to choose what type of photo I want to do before my dive, might as well go for mirrorless or dSLR.

2) Get a Sony RX100 with Patima housing (cheaper than others), and wide angle lens. I'll get versatility (macro and wide with wet mount) and better image quality than my G12. But the macro isn't as good as on the G12. The cost would be similar the my first option. Not sure how I'd like to handle such a small camera in manual mode...

3) Seeing the costs of the previous options were pretty high, I thought why not spend a bit more and get a (most likely?) better setup. Olympus OMD EM-5 in Nauticam housing with the 12-50mm Nauticam port and zoom gear. That's a fair bit more money than options 1 and 2, and with this I wouldn't get wide angle (not enough money to buy the lenses for now). But I get decent macro (coupled with my Inon UCL 165) and midrange in with a single lens. With this I can upgrade later to go really wide (8mm fisheye, 7-14mm or 9-18mm) and super macro (60mm, which fits in the 12-50mm port).

I also considered the EPL 5, but the lack of wheels for manual control put me off.

Like you, I like my C1 and C2 settings. But maybe a housing giving access to the wheels would make it less essential?

Anyway, just sharing my personal views, being in a similar situation :)

Charles, from the reviews I read the OMD EM-5 seems pretty close to a dSLR. Have read Alex Mustard's review on Wetpixel? Not sure I'm allowed to post links to other forums here, but it's easy to find.
 
The thing with DSLRs is, that they are BIG and HEAVY and their housing are not only BIG and HEAVY but also cost $$$$$. I travel with the camera and really don't want to keep carrying a DSLR with me the whole time.
icosm14.gif


G15 is a bit better than G12, but still: the sensor is really small, which rules it out.

I really do understand that Cumbo but clearly it's not easy to find something that's significantly better than the G12 while ruling out DSLR. Sure, there are some rigs that offer a few advantages in different areas but none of them are "better enough" to get you to jump. That's why you're not really finding anything. You're at or near the top of the P&S range. The next step is DSLR.

I know they're big, heavy and expensive. They also take brilliant photos, especially if you use quality strobes. I'm in the same spot as yourself. My G12 is doing the job, but I know I'll eventually retire it for a DSLR. It's just a matter of time.

-Charles

---------- Post added January 12th, 2013 at 02:26 PM ----------

Charles, from the reviews I read the OMD EM-5 seems pretty close to a dSLR. Have read Alex Mustard's review on Wetpixel? Not sure I'm allowed to post links to other forums here, but it's easy to find.

Sure, it's a micro four-thirds. The question then becomes, what advantages does it have over a proper DSLR? Is the housing significantly cheaper or smaller? Are there similar accessories such as viewfinders available for the EM-5 housing? If you're just comparing the cameras themselves, then sure I can see some distinct advantages to the micro-4/3 body but once it goes underwater a lot of those disappear. You have to compare the entire package, not just the body.
 
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