Would a Remote Exhaust Elbow help control buoyancy when using an octo-inflator in OOA

[Tigerman]

Think it is kind of a non issue, in an ooa situation you should be more worried about getting to the surface than buoyancy control. I can only see the issue of buoyancy at 15 ft being an issue

Having done actual incident air-share ascents, I completely disagree. I would NOT want to risk myself or the diver already dependant on my equipment to end up with a DCS or lung overexpansion injury in the process..

 

[Insta-Gator]

Think it is kind of a non issue, in an ooa situation you should be more worried about getting to the surface than buoyancy control. I can only see the issue of buoyancy at 15 ft being an issue

Disagree. Buoyancy/ascent rate is always a matter of concern. If you are sharing air the non-stressed diver should take control to calm stressed diver and to stabilize/control ascent rate.

edit: Did not notice other responses similar to mine prior to posting. Didn't mean to pile on, but my comment stands.

 

[jonnythan]

Think it is kind of a non issue, in an ooa situation you should be more worried about getting to the surface than buoyancy control. I can only see the issue of buoyancy at 15 ft being an issue

Gotta add to the "this is crazy talk" chorus here.

 

[shekes]

....And while it is pretty much verboten in the tech/cave community, shoulder dumps are pretty common and seldom fail. ...

....Consequently, I'll take the position that you don't need an inflator elbow dump, but it is not a threat either and can make the process of dumping gas a little easier....

...Also, Scubapro normally has a right shoulder dump valve on their BCs. That is to allow simultaneous dumping with a pull cord on the BC, while breathing off an Air 2. One could argue that the right shoulder dump is another failure point high in the bladder or wing, but 30 years of successful operational use by tens of thousands of divers suggests it's really a total non-issue. ....

...It's not rocket science, but the arguments against tend to fall out on dogmatic lines rather than based on actual experience and objective reasoning of what makes sense in a particular configuration as a whole.

That pretty much answers my question. Thank you!

I just bought a new ATX100 and asked the seller to put a long Miflex hose on it because I'd be diving the Apeks with the Air2. When he asked how long I did not really have an answer and suggested he makes it as long as he would for himself. The guy, an experienced diver, instructor and reg technician said that he would definitely not make it longer than 40" because "You want to keep that OOA-diver close and not float away from you on a long hose." That kinda made more sense to me than all the arguments for a long hose I've read yet. So I am getting a pretty standard length hose I guess.

Thanks everybody!

And "jonnythan", I would appreciate if you stayed out of my threads in the future. I do not appreciate your contributions.

 

[rhwestfall]

..... The guy, an experienced diver, instructor and reg technician said that he would definitely not make it longer than 40" because "You want to keep that OOA-diver close and not float away from you on a long hose."

While there is value in the "close control" camp of thinking, there is also value in "some space". The long hose (being 5' or 7', or, inbetween) hose can be routed in a manner where you control how much is let out during use. Just some food for thought.

The key element is to understand how to use the equipment you choose, and make sure that the person you are diving with understands it too.

 

[shekes]

Yes, I perfectly understand the reasoning of the pro-long-hose arguments. But it had already appeared to me that the nuisance and the risks that come with such a long hose might outweigh the benefits it might ever be able to provide simply because of the low probability of an occurrence of OOA vs 100% probability of the occurrence of nuisance of a long hose. Adding to this equation the argument that the long hose could actually be a disadvantage in an OOA situation as well was what just ultimately tipped my scales.

 

[rhwestfall]

.... 100% probability of the occurrence of nuisance of a long hose.

I'd like to see the source for your data.... I doubt greatly it is legitimate.

I am not in this for any fight, and actually own the configuration you are using.... I just do not stand for made up dis-information. There are too many who would take this as gospel....

 

[shekes]

You misunderstood me I am afraid. There is no source because there is no "data".
It is merely a matter of a phrasing. If you asses a risk: a 1% probability to sustain a level 10 injury on let's say 1-20 scale would be equal to a 10% probability of sustaining a level 1 injury on the same scale. If you define "nuisance of having a long hose" to be lets say 0.001 level injury occuring on 100% of the dives, and the "disadvantage of not having a long hose in OOA" as level 5 injury, statistics of an OOA occurence on (at least) 1 of every 5000 dives would justify having a long hose (but 1 in 10000 wouldn't)

My "100% probability of the occurrence of nuisance" was just a way of phrasing that I find a long hose to be a nuisance (in a non-OOA-situation or in other words always for except in an OOA).
Rephrasing post16: I already wasn't sure if I should be getting a long hose even though I thought it would be an advantage to have one in OOA, because I find long hoses to be a nuisance. So when I realized that even in OOA a long hose could still be worse than a short one, I decided against a long hose.

It is of course my personal choice, it is not a recommendation. I solicited advice, took it and shared my decision and the reasoning behind it.
There is nothing to fight about or for. It is absolutely a matter of personal preference and/or individual risk aversion.
Even if there were a statistical observation that "the longer the hose the safer the dive" you'd still draw a line somewhere.
For example: if a 100' long hose would make diving 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% safe, you still wouldn't dive with one because it just wouldn't be fun but hard work. I originally drew a line at 5' but after the latest advice I'll just go with 2'.

 

[eelnoraa]

nuisance of a long hose.

What do you mean by that?

When I started, PADI OW, I was taught to grab onto buddy's BC when air sharing happen, so the OOA diver is not leaving the donor. I now think it is a dump idea, because 1)the only option of both diver at that moment is ascent, because it is not likely both diver hanging onto each other's BC can swim anywhere, such as find a safe place to ascent (anchor light). 2)both divers must ascent vertically. 3)both hoping that their mutual buoyancy is good enough to not get into any trouble.

With a long hose, the OOA diver will hang ont to the hose. The reg isn't going anywhere anyway. Both divers can swim side by side efficiently to find a safe ascent location. Both diver can ascent horizontally. Both diver can control their buoyance independently to ascent safetly. Long hose donation just make so much sense once you think about it.

---------- Post Merged at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:38 PM ----------

As for vent at the elbow area. I have had trouble with that before, it costed me a dive even before I get in. It happenes like this. In classic BWRAF check, my buddy was trying to check my wing for venting. He pulled my inflator, nothing happened (of course). Then he pulled harder, still nothing. Then he hold onto my left shoulder and pull. Elbow came off. No dive for me that day. The big question is what can the elbow vent do that other vent can't do in diving??

 

[hypertech]

The way I see it, if you're trained and comfortable enough to be able to take the thing out of your mouth to properly vent, you probably won't be using an Air2. If you are, then that's probably the right way to do it.

Putting yourself in that situation in the first place is stupid though. It's so much easier to manage your BC when your inflator isn't in your mouth.

There are lots of reasons why you might have to donate air to someone else that have nothing to do with how well trained and comfortable you are. Training and comfort might just lead to actually needing to share air more as you become more observant of others and better able to assist them in an emergency of their creation.