first pool session today and some questions

[devildoc5]

greetings all! I am a 5 yr Navy Corpsman Vet who just had my first pool session today. Had a blast! Although a few questions were brought to mind. I asked the instructors/assistant instructors and got a few different answers so figured I would ask here and see what everyone thought.

First problem I seemed to have was the inability to sink (always seemed to have the exact opposite of that problem before). One instructor decided it was because I needed more weight and added another 6 pounds to my right side.

A little background, I am 5'10" 180-185 lbs using a Henderson 7/5 semi dry, weight integrated BC, and already had 26 lbs of weight prior to the addition of the extra six pounds to my right side.

This obviously caused me to become unbalanced and REALLY messed me up during the buoyancy part of the exercises. :depressed:

The thing about it is after the session ended one instructor (the one who was working with me) told me I needed more weight and that we would make sure it was more evenly distributed "next time."

Another instructor told me that I didnt need anymore weight and that what I needed was to fully exhale every last little bit of air out of my lungs for the first 8 feet or so and that would solve all my problems.

From what I understand (read nothing at all) either one of these seem like viable options. Just wondering what some other experienced divers would have to say.

Also I didnt seem to have any problems with equalization that I have heard of others having, but for some reason I had a HELL of a time clearing my mask. Finally got it figured out and all is good on that front now, but just kicked my butt for a good 15 mins...:depressed:

All in all I had a good time, little tired from having to fight to stay flat the whole time (my body kept rolling to my right side) but other than that I look forward to making it to the ocean and getting my c-card any many more experiences to come.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

 

[tstormdiver]

Buoyancy is a very personal thing. Everyone has a different body type & thus different buoyancy characteristics. Let's face it fat floats & muscle tends to sink. The 7/5 semi dry will cause a good amount of weight to have to added, as they are rather positively buoyant & tend to trap a lot of air, if the air is not squeezed out properly. I don't fully understand why weight was added only to one side. It should be evenly distributed on both sides to prevent said unbalance of trim. I would also agree with the 1 instructor who advised you to let all the air out of your lungs. It is normal mammalian instinct to hold the breath when the face is submerged. It is totally subconcious & normal for beginners, especially if struggling with a skill or over- task loaded. The biggest advice I can give, is to make sure your weights are distributed evenly around you, to exhale fully when you begin your descent (the first 6- 10 ft shoulf be a tad difficult to get down)- a proper weighting procedure would certainly be in order; you really do not want to be overweighted & when you go through your skills, go through them in a relaxed manor- do not get in a hurry.

 

[vshearer]

The thing about it is after the session ended one instructor (the one who was working with me) told me I needed more weight and that we would make sure it was more evenly distributed "next time."

Another instructor told me that I didnt need anymore weight and that what I needed was to fully exhale every last little bit of air out of my lungs for the first 8 feet or so and that would solve all my problems.

.

Difficult to offer advice not being there, but the second instructor might be one to listen to. A 7/5? That is a lot of neoprene so first I wonder at the temps you are diving in, but ultimately the neoprene will compress, so what he is basically saying is get down a bit and the bouancy of the neoprene will be offset by compression. This, at least to me, is a better solution than severe overweighting. Why in the hell you would have weight put on you unbalanced initially as the first instructor did eludes me.

 

[devildoc5]

I guess it was because that is all the weight that would "fit" in the BC without using clips or something. IDK in all honesty though, it seemed kinda weird to me as well. The first instructor did walk me through a few of the "problems" I was having with my mask and such, not that he was a bad instructor in the least bit. Just seems like it was a little weird to only put it on one side is all.

I cant honestly say if I was holding my breath or if I was only blowing a little bit out to begin with. I do know that after a little bit it seemed to get easier and then the only problem I had was the whole trim thing (probably due to unequal distribution of weight).

Water temps here average between 55 and 65, still closer to the 55 mark right now though...

 

[Saucy Sailoress]

Just seems like it was a little weird to only put it on one side is all.
...

Weird, but sadly not unusual. Lazy and inconsiderate is my opinion. Probably trying to rush through to get out on his Friday night date.

Remember, when you hit the sea and go a little deeper, as vshearer says, the air in your wetsuit and BCD will compress. This means you will need to add extra air to your BCD to compensate. Then, when you start to ascend again, all that air will expand again, and you'll need to dump it. This becomes very wasteful, if not dangerous. And that is why we all try to achieve optimum buoyancy. The Peak Performance Buoyancy course is underrated, but especially valuable - try to read the chapter from an advanced manual if you can.

 

[RTee]

Devildoc...I am going to give you some of my numbers only for comparison sake. I am 5'8'' and weight 175 lbs. When I dive an 80 AL tank in fresh water, and use 7mm jumpsuit + 7mm shorty on top I need... 30 lbs of weight, 7mm jumpsuit + Bare Chicken vest...20.5 lbs and 7mm jumpsuit only...17 lbs. In Feb 11, diving a single layer 7mm wetsuit plus 3mm neo socks and tropical diving booties in salt water (Bahamas) I used 22 - 24 lbs diving an AL 80 tank and a Zeagle Express Tech BP/Wing. You need to remember that in principle you are already starting a dive overweighted...ideally by about 5 lbs if using an AL 80 tank to compensate for its positive buoyancy when it is near empty ...around 500 psi.

As others have said, buoyancy is a very personal thing but I personally think that if you are in a decent physical shape, 32 lbs for a one layer 7 mm semi-dry is quite a bit of weight especially in fresh water. One of the first thing I would do is once you have water up to your armpits, pull outward slightly on the neck seal to allow excess air to vent out and then you should be able to adjust your weight accordingly. Breathing will also play a big part and it may take a while to develop a nice, long and relaxed breathing cycle. Keeping in mind that you start the dive overweighted just exhaling in a nice relax fashion while depressing your BCD purge bottom should be more then enough to initiate your descent keeping in mind that as you do so, you will have to regularly clear your ears and reintroduce air in your BC to control your descent rate and ideally end up in a hover above the bottom. As for weights, not only you want them distributed in a symetrical fashion laterally to facilitate your position in the water as you are hovering but you may have to distribute some on the longitudinal axis to achieve an ideal and relax horizontal position.

 

[RTee]

Double post

 

[TSandM]

It's pretty common for new students to have problems sinking. A lot of it is nerves; people who are anxious (or just excited) tend to breathe shallowly and with their lungs quite full, and full lungs float. In addition, most new students have some difficulty being stable at the surface, so they kick constantly -- and if your fins are pointing toward the bottom and you are kicking, guess what? You're keeping yourself afloat! Another issue is getting the BC to vent completely -- holding the inflator hose up high and vertical, and venting long enough to empty the air bladder (and some bladders are easier to get completely empty than others). The bottom line is that new students often need more weight than is ideal to get them underwater, and that required weight will go down as you gain comfort and facility with the gear and procedures.

A couple of things that can help: When you lift the BC hose to begin your descent, take a deep breath IN. Yes, IN. Most people will exhale at this point, but it takes time for the air to leave the BC and for your head to reach the water, and just about the time those things happen, you need to breathe again, so you fill your lungs and . . . float. If you INHALE as you begin to empty the BC, just about the time your head reaches the water (and if it never does, you DO need more weight) you can exhale sharply and hold it, and you will continue to sink and remain underwater.

To control the kicking, you can cross your ankles and bend your knees just a little bit. Crossing the ankles prevents finning, and bending the knees slightly means that, as you sink down, the water will push on your fins and rotate you effortlessly into a horizontal position.

Finally, realize that a rental wetsuit may not fit you perfectly, and may be trapping some air in a variety of places. That air will be gone by the end of the dive. If the water isn't too cold, you can pull the neck of the suit open and encourage water to enter the suit and displace the air. If the water is very cold, you might want to do this with a gallon jug of warm water, on the surface, before you begin.

As far as the asymmetric weighting goes, no, it is not ideal. But I have to confess that, for any class, you can only take so many weights of so many different types with you -- and sometimes, by the time you have put extra weight on multiple students, you end up with a single weight that isn't ideal to put anywhere. So you do what you can, take note of the amount, and prepare a different collection of weights for the next session. It may not have been laziness or poor judgment on the part of the instructor -- it may just have been what they had left for clip or additional weights.

 

[TMHeimer]

I need a ton of weight myself. Exhaling every bit of air--don't think you should have to go overboard with that just to sink, but I'm not an instructor.

 

[Azrael]

I can only give you my numbers, but it sure sounds like you are way over-weighted. I am 5'10" and about 190 lbs like you. When I dive a full 7mm suit, 7mm boots, 5mm gloves, and 3/5 hood in the local fresh water quarry I am heavy @ 12 lbs with a steel 120. That tank is heavy and will still be negative at the end of the dive so let's add 6 lbs for the aluminum 80, so i would dive 18 with that setup. My fins are negative by about 1 lb each so call it an even 20. At 26 lbs you should have been fine and at 32 lbs you should have sunk to the bottom unless someone tied a lift bag to you as joke . In the end it takes what it takes to get you down and keep trying and make sure all trapped air is out of your BC and wetsuit.