AOW dive in the Spiegel Grove after 12 logged dives

[vondo]

Why aren't people more worried about all the bad just-trust-the-instructor advice he got before the dive then the criticism he got after the dive?

Well, I haven't gone back and counted all the pre-dive posts, but as I recall they pretty much ran about

1) 25% trust the instructor
2) 25% you are way too inexperienced to do this dive
3) 50% the SG can be a dicey dive, call it off if you are uncomfortable, and think about whether you want to do this now

Before Icarus went diving, there were several contrary responses to 1)

 

[TheRedHead]

In my opinion I have not a choice at this point but to trust the instructor that is the person responsible for me under water and an individual with much more experience that I do.

There's the rub: you are a certified diver and shouldn't count on anyone to be responsible for you underwater. If I were to take say a photography course, I would count on the instructor to show me better how to use my camera, frame subjects, etc., but the instructor is not responsible for my safety underwater. If you don't feel comfortable in the environment, you shouldn't be diving there. The better way to do it is to work up to it diving at 60 ft, then 70, 80, 90, etc., understanding gas planning and the effects of depth on your gas supply, your perception and your buddy's as well. You cannot teach someone deep diving in one dive and if you don't have the skills and confidence at 60 feet, what can you learn at 100 feet? The best you can hope for is not to go there again.

 

[Web Monkey]

Now, I don't *know* what happened and I'm not going to pass judgement even if I did, but consider that if you scare off new divers with "You were stupid, your instructor is stupid, and you're lucky you didn't die" they will miss out on a lot of very useful knowledge that can be gained here. Knowledge that will help them become better divers in the future.

It's good to scare people away from places they shouldn't go. It improves their lifespan.

I wish someone would have done it for me when I went on a wall dive for my #7 dive and had a BC failure. There's no way in the world that I belonged hanging over a several thousand foot drop in a "group drift dive" with no buddy.

I didn't die because my OW instructor had beaten "correct weighting" into us and I wasn't overweighted. It could have easily had a different outcome.

Scaring someone away from a dive they're not ready for is a favor, not an attack.

Terry

 

[RonFrank]

Hello Guys;
I have not a choice at this point but to trust the instructor that is the person responsible for me under water and an individual with much more experience that I do. IMPORTANT

Well, you were OW certified, so if you are a *NEW* diver doing a dive that is potentially beyond your abilities, you need to TRUST yourself, and your buddy, and get more dive time in before making a questionable dive.

Based on what happened on this dive, putting trust in the instructor was a big mistake. Once he was off taking care of one newbie, had ANYTHING happened while he was gone, not ONE of you were trained or really prepared to deal with it.

Certainly we all have to do things we have never done before. The key is taking small steps, and making sure you are VERY comfortable UW. This does not mean comfortable as long as things are going well, this requires some experience and task loading.

You live in a VERY cool place for diviing, and there is really no reason you need to dive the Grove on XX date or XX dive because you can basically dive it anytime you feel ready.

I think it would be a good idea to open a thread about what to look in an instructor, for a new diver, in order to trust him (and this should be in a language that a new diver understands).

There are dozens, maybe hundreds of threads about what to look for in an instructor. One thing people warned about in this thread is the idea of the instructor taking new divers into a potentially dangerous situation.

He left his group, and did not do any of the standard drills that most AOW instructors do on the Deep dive (based on your reports).

So I remain curious, did the chick that bailed the dive pass AOW? Do you feel that your instructor did a good job?

As far as being discouraged, I am far from there. I love this sport and I plan to continue my scuba education and of course you ll see me in this board posting more treads and enjoying your informative feedback, all of them...

See you in the next tread and thank you again...

I would suggest finding some experienced dive buddies, and continue your education along that path prior to more training. I STRONGLY recommend Rescue, but get at least 30 dives under your belt before signing up for that class.

 

[lamont]

The instructor: As a new diver it is very disconcerting to hear "don't trust your instructor". Who should a new diver trust....?

You've got to trust yourself.

You now have some idea of when a dive is way over your head at this point. You should really go back and get a bunch of diving in at the ~60 fsw level on sites that are less current intensive. Get good with your buoyancy control, OOA drills, blue-water ascents and bag shooting. Once you hit the point where you feel reasonably good that you could get blown off the SG, shoot a bag and ascend, then come back to it...

For now, when it comes to current stick with drift diving rather than wreck diving. Doing wreck dives in current sensitive areas really is more of an honest 'advanced' dive which requires 50-100 dives under your belt first at least...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Grove was my 100th. But then again I've got 30 some in a drysuit, deep, uwnav, specialties as well as a few others, 30 some in excess 80 ft, 20 in excess of 100, and a few including a solo or two between 110 and 127. Most of my dives before the grove were in low vis. And I already assisted as DM candidate with 20 or so open water, 5 advanced, 2 rescue and 9 jr open water and jr advanced. Even at this it was still a rush on the second one. the first on the grove conditions were like a millpond, virtually no current, the second (number 100) the current was at like 4 knots by the captains estimate and what a blast flying like a flag in the wind. clipped on with a jon line and my bag ready to go should anything have gone wrong.

 

[divermike1989]

I dove the Spiegal on my 6th dive in AOW and while I was extremely comfortable in the water the current was annoying. On my dive the current died off at about 50ft below but when you where above that you couldn't stay verticle on the line.

 

[Waterlover]

From reading this thread it seems to me some very experienced divers gave some advice although maybe a bit harsh(sometimes people only understand harsh) that it might not be a good idea to do this dive. The advice offended some, in the end the experienced divers called it almost 100% correct. Smetimes it is difficult knowing who to believe, I'll take good seasoned experience over a deck of C cards anytime.

One other question for the instructors out there, Were standards violated when the instructor surfaced and left the group on the deck without direct supervision?