Sucking in water tbrough my snorkel
- Thread starter RXTdiver
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Waterwulf
Contributor
Superior according to who? You? What are your qualifications to make that statement? Can you apply your so called expertise to everybody? Besides, who said anything about jackets? I lump them right in with BPW's but not as bad at face planting.
As far as not being able to use a BPW properly: You're right. I can't. I paid an Instructor good money to teach me how to use one since I had a lot of trouble doing it myself. The teaching process was an abject failure. He said maybe it was my short legs or big shoulders and arms but even with lots of input from me and the Instructor, it face planted me so bad I almost drowned in the pool!.
I trained on a Horse Collar type BC back in the early seventies and still use it today. It does not face plant me. It does not squish me on a dive. It does not get in the way of anything. It does allow me to float calmly on the surface with no input. In other words, it will save my life if I'm unconscious on the surface or even just tired. I like it and will not change.
No, I'm not trying to get anyone to convert, just stop with the negative and/or derogatory comments to anybody who does not do something the way you think it should be done. I have dove in many oceans, rivers, lakes, rivers, canals and other assorted crap holes using my Horse Collar BC and been doing it for over fifty years. I have tried lots of different gear configurations. I'll keep using my Horse Collar BC. You use whatever works for you.
A joke to lighten things up:
Two SCUBA divers got separated from the boat and have been drifting for many many hours. One is wearing a Horse Collar BC and the other is wearing a BPW. How can you tell which is wearing what rig?
Easy! The one wearing the Horse Collar BC is snoring peacefully and dreaming of a steak dinner. The one wearing the BPW is desperately trying to balance while laying on top of his gear and wishing he had a Horse Collar BC!!! lol.
You can't deny Physics. Air floats on water and will always try to get on top. You can prevent it from doing that with constant input but it will continue to try.
Waterwulf
Contributor
You are incorrect in that assumption. A Horse Collar BC can be relied on as a life jacket. In fact, when we first started using them way back in the early 70's, they were life jackets! We stole them from the Air Force air crews. Also, back then the USCG accepted them as life jackets when they did boat safety gear inspections. I think they still may. Who says they can't be both? Have you ever used one? No? Then how are you an expert on them?
iliketopetsharks
Contributor
Sounds like a user error and an incompetent instructor. A bp/w with doubles will in most cases pull you on your back.
With a single cylinder it depends on the type of cylinder, weight distribution and setting of shoulder and crotch strap. You shouldn't faceplant even when the wing is fully inflated.
Or do you have an abnormal anatomy?
I do not know of any horse collar BC that was USCG certified for use as a life jacket. They are optimal for surface flotation but a wing is optimal for horizontal trim in use when submerged. As soon as any air is introduced into either for depth compensation of exposure gear or full tanks, a horse collar rotates head up and a wing generally does not. An Army surplus Mae West may have been an actual life jacket but they were not a BC.
Face planting is just not a problem, for one, keep your reg in your mouth and it does not matter and two face planting is very much a user error issue that can be largely corrected with practice and an open mind to a different way of doing things.
Next time I go diving in a few weeks I am taking my horse collar! I wish I had it a few days ago in Cozumel. It would have been dandy. I was in a 3mm shorty, 6 pounds and zero air introduced. Yes, a little light at safety stop but manageable. A horse collar BC would have been fine.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
When the kelp used to be really thick in Norcal I always used a snorkel on shore dives.
It was better to surface swim out on your belly and push the kelp aside and pick your path. We used to do allot of freediving for abalone so snorkels are pretty common. Most used the straight tube basic freediving type with no valves or balls/gizmos. Using a snorkel for scuba surface swims was taught as a normal thing locally.
IMO, the dry or exhaust valve easy clear types are considered for amateurs.
So now there is no kelp. I don't really have a reason to use a snorkel anymore because I got into the habit if going down pretty early off the beach to see the condition of the weeds and kelp and critters including to see if abalone are coming back.
I encourage people not to think in absolutes and always say that snorkels have no use in scuba diving because they do under some circumstances in surface swims. You have to look at the specific condition snd application.
In boat diving, unless they anchor in some thick kelp bed, a snorkel maybe if no use. But if they do anchor close to kelp and for instance you pop up in the middle of the kelp bed and need to do the kelp crawl or navigate through the kelp to get back to the boat and you're low on air, a snorkel is damn handy! That has happened to me on numerous occasions.
Then there was the time that I was doing my rescue class and we needed to do an air share and go up. We were in 30' of water. I signal to my buddy I'm OOA so he gives me his primary and he is in the process of finding his air 2 when he grabs his snorkel instead and takes in a load of sea water. He freaks out and bolts to the surface ripping his donor second stage out of my mouth and he's gone leaving me there. So I calmly find my second stage and resume breathing. Good thing it was only a drill and not the real thing. Epic fail, try again. So that is something to think about.
It was better to surface swim out on your belly and push the kelp aside and pick your path. We used to do allot of freediving for abalone so snorkels are pretty common. Most used the straight tube basic freediving type with no valves or balls/gizmos. Using a snorkel for scuba surface swims was taught as a normal thing locally.
IMO, the dry or exhaust valve easy clear types are considered for amateurs.
So now there is no kelp. I don't really have a reason to use a snorkel anymore because I got into the habit if going down pretty early off the beach to see the condition of the weeds and kelp and critters including to see if abalone are coming back.
I encourage people not to think in absolutes and always say that snorkels have no use in scuba diving because they do under some circumstances in surface swims. You have to look at the specific condition snd application.
In boat diving, unless they anchor in some thick kelp bed, a snorkel maybe if no use. But if they do anchor close to kelp and for instance you pop up in the middle of the kelp bed and need to do the kelp crawl or navigate through the kelp to get back to the boat and you're low on air, a snorkel is damn handy! That has happened to me on numerous occasions.
Then there was the time that I was doing my rescue class and we needed to do an air share and go up. We were in 30' of water. I signal to my buddy I'm OOA so he gives me his primary and he is in the process of finding his air 2 when he grabs his snorkel instead and takes in a load of sea water. He freaks out and bolts to the surface ripping his donor second stage out of my mouth and he's gone leaving me there. So I calmly find my second stage and resume breathing. Good thing it was only a drill and not the real thing. Epic fail, try again. So that is something to think about.
boqurant
Contributor
Absolutely bizzare rant with a even more bizzare "joke".... Sigh.
Precisely how many multi-hour surface drifts have you done during your incredibly storied years of diving? And what makes you think that some embarassingly ancient, obsolete, unused-by-literally everyone, horse collar would do anything that a BPW couldn't easily do?
If I'm floating for hours, god-forbid in your company, remind me what's preventing me from floating correctly on my back as I normally do with total ease? Additionally, if I pass out on the water - if only so I dont have to listen to your worthless jokes - even a proper life vest is of little use (waves, sunburn, heatstroke, disorientation, lack of signalling etc).
If I were you I'd take a moment with literally anyone that happens to be in the water, engage some basic physical ability, and learn (!) how to float properly. Even a log can do it, I'm sure you can.
iliketopetsharks
Contributor
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