Horrible Experience In Confined Water Training

[DANDM]

I’ve broken my nose at least 3 times

Don't give Padi more ideas for specialties please

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I wish I had learnt to dive with a class like this. I did a very common 1 day at the pool plus 2 days open water type course. It wasn't too bad, as the instructors were patient and kind, but I had so much left to learn after completing the course.

I'm curious, how do the economics of a course like this works? How much more expensive is it for the students, and did you get enough students?

I'm not an instructor, and might never bother to become one. But purely for self interest I compare all the OW options in my corner of the planet. All the LDSs here teach a very typical PADI curriculum of a pool day plus 2 days in open water, with rather large cohorts per instructor. Not impressive at all! And when we get these new divers joining our social dive clubs, we end up having to mentor them a lot, they're so unprepared...

A couple of independent instructors here add an extra day, with a maximum of 3 students, to make sure the students are well prepared. But the price of these independent instructors is naturally much higher than the LDSs. They don't seem to do OW often, so they've gone to niche courses like tech instead.

I did not teach for a living. I rarely took more than 2 students at a time for Open Water. I might take 3 if two were a couple or parent/child. One time I took 4. Two children, mom, and grandfather. Due to scheduling for most of the class, I had two of them. The last two sessions, once I was sure they would be ok, I had all 4 in the pool. On checkouts I took two at time. Having them switch buddies. I did 4 dives per day. They did two. Last checkout I had all 4 working as two buddy teams. I kept very close watch and it went fine. But that was the last time I took that many.
On many occasions I taught private classes. My OW class was 375.00 and included classroom materials and gear in the pool. They needed to provide mask, fins, snorkel, and boots. I taught at a shop with it's own pool and pool time for me was $50 as long as I opened the shop one evening a week. That was for the entire class. Not per session. If they bought their gear from the shop, the fee was waived.
So, in many ways I was very lucky to have that arrangement. Many times I would be at the shop because I wanted something to do in the evening. I'd vis tanks, run the pool vac, do some fills, etc. As a result I never paid for fills or vis. Hydro's were at shop cost.
And I was a YMCA instructor first. That meant snorkeling and freediving skills before the student could be put on SCUBA. Weight checks done at the beginning and end of every session. Basic skills demonstrated by the student every session.
We did bailouts. Sit on the edge of the pool with all gear held in lap. Weight belt over the shoulder. Regulator in mouth and breathing. Fall forward and don gear as you descend.
Doff and don. Remove all gear at the bottom of the deep end. Ascend to surface while exhaling. Within 30 seconds dive back down and put gear back on.
Last pool session was rescue skills. Panicked diver at the surface, non-responsive diver from depth, rescue tow while stripping gear and get diver out of the pool, and I added supporting a diver at the surface for two minutes and help them achieve positive buoyancy.
This was done as buddy teams. If I had a private class I'd get someone to come in and play victim and let the student do most of the work while I assisted.
We taught actual buddy breathing.
When my students went to OW checkouts I was sure that if I had a problem they could assist me.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Sounds like this is well before the days of e-learning. I take well to e-learning, while I assume a lot of people do not. That said, 6 weeks to get certified OW is a bit asinine.

I was a YMCA instructor first. YMCA standards required a minimum of 12 hours in the pool with 14-16 recommended. The curriculum was not simple.

Mastery was not clear a fully flooded mask one time smoothly. It was clear it while task loaded or in the middle of another skill multiple times.

All skills were done neutral and horizontal. Including the BC remove and replace.

Buoyancy and trim were the first skills taught. Using proper weighting and lung volume control.
That meant snorkeling and freediving skills before the student could be put on SCUBA.
Before donning a scuba unit they had to be able to toss their mask in the deep end and swim 25 feet to retrieve it from the bottom and clear the mask and have the snorkel breathable when their head broke the surface.

Weight checks are done at the beginning and end of every session. Basic skills are demonstrated by the student every session.

We did bailouts. Sit on the edge of the pool with all gear held in your lap. The weight belt over the shoulder. Regulator in the mouth and breathing. Fall forward and don gear as you descend.

Doff and don. Remove all gear at the bottom of the deep end. Ascend to the surface while exhaling. Within 30 seconds, dive back down and put gear back on. That sadly went away after some nitwit in Texas tried it unsupervised and not a YMCA diver, and embolized and died. It was a great confidence builder and task-loading exercise.

The last pool session was rescue skills. Panicked diver at the surface, non-responsive diver from depth, rescue tow while stripping gear and getting diver out of the pool, and I added supporting a diver at the surface for two minutes and helping them achieve positive buoyancy.

This was done in buddy teams. If I had a private class, I'd get someone to come in and play victim and let the student do most of the work while I assisted.
We taught actual buddy breathing.

When my students went to OW checkouts, I was sure that if I had a problem, they could assist me.

E-learning has nothing to do with building muscle memory in the water. And under SDI standards, e-learning was not supposed to replace classroom time if used correctly. It is used to supplement it and allow the instructor to add material specific to the location, conditions, and the instructor's experience.
I supplemented the material with my book, which includes gas planning, cylinder matching, rescue considerations, and overall dive planning that begins when the decision to dive is made and everything from that point is part of the dive plan. Location, choice of buddy, and skills and any additional equipment required, travel, food, and the actual dive itself.

My students had cleared a fully flooded mask a dozen times before we went to open water under different degrees of task loading.

I found that 2 hours in the pool was the limit for most under normal task loading. After that, they start to get tired and cold. When that happens, the learning process stops.
It takes time to reinforce all of that. Because I had to teach that once they got their card, they weren't going to have or need an instructor or DM for their subsequent dives.

I did have a couple of people over the years tell me the time was too much. I told them to compare the content. And if they still wanted to have a shorter class, go somewhere else. I didn't want anyone as a student who was willing to cut corners.

I had an 80% +/- rate of return for at least one more class. And more than a few divers who went to different resorts thanked me for giving them the education they got. One couple told me they were asked by a boat guide if they were DM's. It was their 9th and 10th dives after getting their OW card.

 

[Wheeler925]

I was a YMCA instructor first. YMCA standards required a minimum of 12 hours in the pool with 14-16 recommended. The curriculum was not simple.

Mastery was not clear a fully flooded mask one time smoothly. It was clear it while task loaded or in the middle of another skill multiple times.

All skills were done neutral and horizontal. Including the BC remove and replace.

Buoyancy and trim were the first skills taught. Using proper weighting and lung volume control.
That meant snorkeling and freediving skills before the student could be put on SCUBA.
Before donning a scuba unit they had to be able to toss their mask in the deep end and swim 25 feet to retrieve it from the bottom and clear the mask and have the snorkel breathable when their head broke the surface.

Weight checks are done at the beginning and end of every session. Basic skills are demonstrated by the student every session.

We did bailouts. Sit on the edge of the pool with all gear held in your lap. The weight belt over the shoulder. Regulator in the mouth and breathing. Fall forward and don gear as you descend.

Doff and don. Remove all gear at the bottom of the deep end. Ascend to the surface while exhaling. Within 30 seconds, dive back down and put gear back on. That sadly went away after some nitwit in Texas tried it unsupervised and not a YMCA diver, and embolized and died. It was a great confidence builder and task-loading exercise.

The last pool session was rescue skills. Panicked diver at the surface, non-responsive diver from depth, rescue tow while stripping gear and getting diver out of the pool, and I added supporting a diver at the surface for two minutes and helping them achieve positive buoyancy.

This was done in buddy teams. If I had a private class, I'd get someone to come in and play victim and let the student do most of the work while I assisted.
We taught actual buddy breathing.

When my students went to OW checkouts, I was sure that if I had a problem, they could assist me.

E-learning has nothing to do with building muscle memory in the water. And under SDI standards, e-learning was not supposed to replace classroom time if used correctly. It is used to supplement it and allow the instructor to add material specific to the location, conditions, and the instructor's experience.
I supplemented the material with my book, which includes gas planning, cylinder matching, rescue considerations, and overall dive planning that begins when the decision to dive is made and everything from that point is part of the dive plan. Location, choice of buddy, and skills and any additional equipment required, travel, food, and the actual dive itself.

My students had cleared a fully flooded mask a dozen times before we went to open water under different degrees of task loading.

I found that 2 hours in the pool was the limit for most under normal task loading. After that, they start to get tired and cold. When that happens, the learning process stops.
It takes time to reinforce all of that. Because I had to teach that once they got their card, they weren't going to have or need an instructor or DM for their subsequent dives.

I did have a couple of people over the years tell me the time was too much. I told them to compare the content. And if they still wanted to have a shorter class, go somewhere else. I didn't want anyone as a student who was willing to cut corners.

I had an 80% +/- rate of return for at least one more class. And more than a few divers who went to different resorts thanked me for giving them the education they got. One couple told me they were asked by a boat guide if they were DM's. It was their 9th and 10th dives after getting their OW card.

Good for you. Most of this sounds like an enormous waste of time and energy.

 

[Edward3c]

I did not teach for a living. I rarely took more than 2 students at a time for Open Water. I might take 3 if two were a couple or parent/child. One time I took 4. Two children, mom, and grandfather. Due to scheduling for most of the class, I had two of them. The last two sessions, once I was sure they would be ok, I had all 4 in the pool. On checkouts I took two at time. Having them switch buddies. I did 4 dives per day. They did two. Last checkout I had all 4 working as two buddy teams. I kept very close watch and it went fine. But that was the last time I took that many.
On many occasions I taught private classes. My OW class was 375.00 and included classroom materials and gear in the pool. They needed to provide mask, fins, snorkel, and boots. I taught at a shop with it's own pool and pool time for me was $50 as long as I opened the shop one evening a week. That was for the entire class. Not per session. If they bought their gear from the shop, the fee was waived.
So, in many ways I was very lucky to have that arrangement. Many times I would be at the shop because I wanted something to do in the evening. I'd vis tanks, run the pool vac, do some fills, etc. As a result I never paid for fills or vis. Hydro's were at shop cost.
And I was a YMCA instructor first. That meant snorkeling and freediving skills before the student could be put on SCUBA. Weight checks done at the beginning and end of every session. Basic skills demonstrated by the student every session.
We did bailouts. Sit on the edge of the pool with all gear held in lap. Weight belt over the shoulder. Regulator in mouth and breathing. Fall forward and don gear as you descend.
Doff and don. Remove all gear at the bottom of the deep end. Ascend to surface while exhaling. Within 30 seconds dive back down and put gear back on.
Last pool session was rescue skills. Panicked diver at the surface, non-responsive diver from depth, rescue tow while stripping gear and get diver out of the pool, and I added supporting a diver at the surface for two minutes and help them achieve positive buoyancy.
This was done as buddy teams. If I had a private class I'd get someone to come in and play victim and let the student do most of the work while I assisted.
We taught actual buddy breathing.
When my students went to OW checkouts I was sure that if I had a problem they could assist me.

That’s pretty much the old A to G tests BSAC ran until the 1980s.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Good for you. Most of this sounds like an enormous waste of time and energy.

And it's why I would never accept anyone who thought that as a student or dive with them.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Good for you. Most of this sounds like an enormous waste of time and energy.

It would be an enormous waste of time and energy for someone who dives once a year in rental gear in somewhere like Cozumel or similar where they do everything for you short of wiping your ass, and has no desire to go beyond that. Those divers really don't need to know much of anything except how not to drown.
But that's not the type of diver Jim was training.