DIR- GUE Finding teammates after failing fundamentals

[overthinking_diver]

Hey Scubaboard, I've been reading this forum for a few months now and finally decided to make an account. This is definitely not the first post I imagined I'd make but here it goes

I took GUE fundamentals last week. I learned a lot and improved a lot but ultimately failed the class. I am very early in my diving career and I'm determined to practice and take it again in a few years. However, I am a little worried the fail rating will prevent me from finding teammates to practice with:

So I have two questions for the scubaboard community:

• To the GUE divers - would you ever dive with someone who failed fundamentals? Or is the failure a "stay away from that person" sign?
• To people who failed their first time - was it hard to find teammates to practice with? Were you able to ever go back and take the class again?

If the answer to the first questions is NO, then why does GUE encourage people to take fundies as early as possible before they're comfortable in a completely new gear configuration?

I imagine how I failed would be important to this conversation

Halfway through the class I thought I was doing well - I was doing the skills and my positioning in the water was fine. I had a really hard time keeping my heavy jet fins up. I switched from ultralight seawing nova fins for the class, so the adjustment was hard. I was also using a really thin 3mm wetsuit. I thought I kicked a minimal amount, but we all know the video doesn't lie so on day 4 my instructor showed me how much I was actually kicking and told me I needed to stop. He gave a lot of useful tips on how to accomplish this. On the actual dive he kept giving me the "stop kicking" sign during the drills, so I kept trying but my feet kept sinking. I tried clenching all muscle groups I can think of and adding gas to the wing but I couldn't make it work. Eventually, my breathing got worse and worse and I started to hyperventilate. I tried to sort myself out but I couldn't so I gave the thumbs up and we ended the dive. I didn't quite panic but stress level was very high. The ascent was controlled in formation on the line as usual and we made our minimum deco stops and got to the surface. The class just went downhill from there. Luckily, it was near the end so I didn't miss that much of it.

So overall, I think I did all the skills - basic 5s, multiple s-drills, multiple valve drills, ascents while sharing air, smb deployment. I think had I not tried this hard to keep my feet up and kept doing what I was doing I would've gotten a provisional.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You only fail if you give up. Would you clarify in that you were not given a provisional pass? As I thought there were 3 outcomes: tec pass, rec pass, and provisional.

I'd be more than happy to dive with anyone who took fundies, regardless of outcome.

 

[rddvet]

As said above, we need more info. Did you get any sort of pass, did your instructor say you had things to work on and to come back? Or did he cut off class early? In my class we had a guy that basically had to be booted from the class (another instructor spent the next few days working with him, but dude was a "technical diver" who had no idea how to use a butt dump). He "failed" but even then was told to go work on stuff and come back.
I think GUE is a pretty open group (differing from what people here like to spout). I didn't pass tech 1. We got up to being ready to do the experience dives, but the instructor said all of us needed to work on our ascents more. The last day of class that was supposed to be for experience dives was changed to a day of just more work with the instructor. I've had multiple people saying they'd dive with me and/or my wife to help us prep for the rest of the class. The third person in class had some free time and went back and finished easily. Many, many gue divers "failed" their classes. It doesn't mean you're bad, and most gue divers know that. Its very common for people to need to go home and work on stuff and come back. It's like a generalized shared trauma many people experienced so they feel for others. You have the right attitude,. Rather than being defeated, you're ready to work on it. Not many people can say that..

 

[Compressor]

Sorry about the outcome of your course @overthinking_diver. Hope you had a good instructor.

 

[Aura]

I'd be delighted to dive with anyone willing to work on their skills and try to improve. The only divers I generally try to stay away from are know-it-alls who stubbornly hold on to dangerous diving practices.

So overall, I think I did all the skills - basic 5s, multiple s-drills, multiple valve drills, ascents while sharing air, smb deployment. I think had I not tried this hard to keep my feet up and kept doing what I was doing I would've gotten a provisional.

I also think it's weird that you didn't get a provisional if you managed to work through all of these skills. But I wasn't in your class and I'm not a GUE instructor, so what do I know
I will say though, "rigid, non split fins" does not exclusively mean ScubaPro Jet fins. Jets, or something like Hollis F1s would be way too heavy for me, even in a drysuit. It sounds like the first thing you need to sort out is your trim, and possibly getting some lighter fins (I personally use the Fourth Element Tech fins).

Good luck!

 

[steinbil]

Sounds like you got mentally overloaded by trying to stay in trim, and that your discomfort led to hyperventilation/near-panic. A big part of the fundamentals class is actually how you deal with mental task loading and if you manage to maintain situational awareness and keep your cool under stress. Gaining experience and comfort in the water will probably solve those issues for you. I did lots of swim training and skill practice in the pool without scuba gear (back kicks, mask drills, pretending to do basic 5 - all while breath holding) to get more comfortable just being in water before my fundies class, and I think it helped me a lot.

To the GUE divers - would you ever dive with someone who failed fundamentals? Or is the failure a "stay away from that person" sign?

I would absolutely dive with someone wanting to improve their skills and work towards a GUE cert. I would only be wary of those that think they know it all or have a dangerous attitude, and from the tone of your post I'm pretty confident you don't fall into that category.

 

[84CJ7]

Buy these:

Deep6 Eddy Flippers

Ported blade flipper design Spring straps Lightweight for travel Stiff and powerful Close to neutral in water

www.deep6gear.com

Trying to use skills to make up for the wrong equipment is a waste of time.

When I dive a 3mm shorty tropical I have to put my feet straight up (knees 90 degrees at least) when stopped to bring the center of gravity way forwards or its down by the stern for certain, but if I had the cash I would just buy these for travel since they are supposedly much lighter than the heavy fins I use and almost neutrally buoyant.
Maybe there's something lighter out there I don't know of.

On the original question I would rather dive with someone that would bother to even try that sort of good training rather than the morons that share my own cash for cards dive cert.

EDIT: I just looked and these are half the weight of my OMS slipstream tech style fins of the same size.
2nd Edit: OK looking that fact up made me take my own advice so I just ordered the light blue XL ones. I figure itll make me easy to spot in a pack but isn't a color wildlife find tasty. I also own their shoe type rock boots.

 

[overthinking_diver]

Thanks everyone! This actually makes me feel a lot better!

As said above, we need more info. Did you get any sort of pass, did your instructor say you had things to work on and to come back? Or did he cut off class early?

Technically, I was cut off the class early and didn't splash for the last dive on the last day. The class was 5 days and on day 1 we were told we have two more dives than normal. My near panic moment described above was dive 1 on day 4. After we surfaced, instructor and other student went back down to finish some skills. Then somehow I finished the entire second dive on day 4, we did another valve drill, s-drills and I did my first smb deployment ever - which was a super cool feeling

Oh, I forgot to mention that on day 1 the instructor told us verbatim that no one will "fail" the class. So after day 4 ended the realization that I'm about to fail a class that "no one fails" hit me pretty head on. After not sleeping at all that night (also, had to deal with mice in the hotel, not making excuses, but it did affect me) waking up for day 5 was tough. I didn't want to be in the water at all. I did a pretty poor valve drill, I almost took the backup out of my mouth with my right hand with my primary still clipped. Pretty bad stuff, my teammate signaled and was like wtf are you doing . I finished the valve drill but I felt that was about to lose it again. So during the next skill which was helicopter turn practice (my left turn was worse than my right so I imagine instructor wanted to sneak one more full isolated practice) I decided to call it before it got to a really bad state again. Teammate deployed an smb, we surfaced and I was told I failed and won't be diving anymore. At this point, I was glad to be out of the water and there was no way I was diving again that day.

So having two extra dives, I skipped one full and two half dives so I imagine I got close to the full experience so I don't feel too bad about not technically completing the class. I didn't do the no mask swim but this sounds like an easy skill compared to others. It's a swim, so trim, balance and stability is a lot easier.

Oh, also a really cool tidbit. Instructor told me he knew all the way during my valve drill that I was about to lose it again. He could see my diaphragm twitching so he knew my breathing was fast, shallow and bad. The situational awareness of GUE instructors is out of this world - they can see your internal organs moving.

 

[Aura]

Oh, also a really cool tidbit. Instructor told me he knew all the way during my valve drill that I was about to lose it again. He could see my diaphragm twitching so he knew my breathing was fast, shallow and bad. The situational awareness of GUE instructors is out of this world

But he didn't have the presence of mind to intervene and make you slow down and have a chance to pull yourself together?

we surfaced and I was told I failed and won't be diving anymore.

If it happened as explained here, I am not very impressed. Sorry. The instructor is meant to teach you and instruct you, not simply be there to evaluate your skills and let you spiral out of control if you're unable to do it well enough on your own.
I highly suggest that once you've had a chance to practice and sorted out the issues that have been identified, and worked on your weaknesses, that you try again with another instructor. It doesn't sound like this one works well for you.

 

[overthinking_diver]

Sounds like you got mentally overloaded by trying to stay in trim, and that your discomfort led to hyperventilation/near-panic.

Yes, that's exactly right! I think my main failure was not being mentally prepared for 5 days of being pushed to the limit and I crumbled emotionally from the rollercoaster - I'll fail, oh, no one fails, I'll pass, I'll fail. I do overthink things, hence the name I picked

Sorry about the outcome of your course @overthinking_diver. Hope you had a good instructor.

Amazing instructor! On day 1, I was having a hard time staying still to watch him demo fin kicks. Then just few days later I was doing s-drills, valve-drills maintaining position. Amazing progress for 5 days of training. Not quite at the bar yet, but I'm in no hurry. The underwater world is not going anywhere.