Jacket vs back inflate for new diver?

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Exactly.

And to be honest, I have no idea where the idea about there being a difference on the surface with back inflate or BP/W came from. The idea that it "pushes you forward in the water". Seriously, I have heard that a lot, I have no idea what it means. Not being snarky. Just never felt anything like that.
I've long suspected this myth originated from people who were using wings that were oversized in relation to their needs and inflated them to near-bursting on the surface. I inflate just enough to float my head above water, and I have never experienced a feeling of being pushed forward.
 
That makes no sense. Those of us who dive more frequently have much more opportunity to be in our gear and to know what works than someone who only dives on vacation.

I generally get in 200 plus dives a year except the last year due to covid. So I base my comment on that. I have used a bp/wing before but prefer my Scuba Pro Black XXL BCD for my diving. Nothing wrong with either bp/wing or bcd it comes down to personal preference. So yeah maybe I only dive on vacation but I generally take up to 10 or more weeks of diving vacations a year. Some of my dive buddies use BP/wing some use BCD and they are also doing several vacations a year with me in addition to diving elsewhere.
 
I've long suspected this myth originated from people who were using wings that were oversized in relation to their needs and inflated them to near-bursting on the surface. I inflate just enough to float my head above water, and I have never experienced a feeling of being pushed forward.
It is true that a very full wing will exaggerate the tendency, but that just means more body adjustment. When I am preparing for a technical dive and end up waiting for any period of time at the surface, I do indeed have my wing completely full because of the weight of all the gear I am carrying. I just lean back more. On my last such dive, my companion was having some issues getting started, and I just floated around waiting. I said to him, "Isn't this when I am supposed to be flopped over on my face?
 
My opinion is not going to be popular among many Scubaboard Scuba Snobs. :rofl3:

I have several 1000 dives behind my opinion, and have been certified since 1989 OW, DM in 1991, never rushed my training. I have dived in fresh water, salt water, brackish water in crystal clear and black water conditions, altitude, night, deep, currents and no currents.

My 1st BC was a 1990 US Divers jacket style BC. In order to get into a modern weight integrated BC, I 'downgraded' for 9 years to a back infate Aeris Oceans5 around 2012. After I dropped 34#, I needed a medium BC again and I went with a Cressi Travellite. It is compact, weight integrated and I float upright when on the surface. Plus I only dive on vacations now and an occasional work dive at the ski lake. I love this BC and it works for me.

In my experience, the combination of having front mounted weight pockets in addition to an inflated airbag put me face down @ the surface. Additionally, the back inflate attempts to solve a problem I never had, being horizontal while cruising around on the reef.

So I won't say my way is the only way, or that would make me as bad as the scuba snobs. I would tell you to try them both and see what you like and make a choice. Personally, I haven't struggled with horizontal positioning or face down since returning to a jacket style.
 
13. Some jacket BCs have trim pockets. They are often poorly placed. Too low over the kidneys and not the lungs.

My Scuba Pro has trim pockets at the back near the top of your lungs so they are placed fine for me. Never an issue to be horizontal or switch to sitting buddha position and diving inverted facing the surface. I can trim to whatever suits me for that point of the dive.
 
In my experience, the combination of having front mounted weight pockets in addition to an inflated airbag put me face down @ the surface.
My first back inflate BCD (Zeagle Ranger) did not have trim pockets. I discovered the concept of trim weighting accidentally when unusual circumstances led me to a week of diving on a liveaboard with an additional weight strapped to the top of my tank. It was great. Then I became an instructor and got keyman pricing on gear, so I switched to another back inflate model, the ScubaPro Nighthawk. This BCD had trim pockets in the back at shoulder height. I found that if I put the same amount of weight in the front and upper back pockets, it took care of the problem you mention, and I trimmed out beautifully in the water. I later saw that Zeagle had added trim pockets to the new model Rangers, but for some reason they put them at the same level as the integrated weight pockets, so all they did was help you stay upright on the surface and gave no help to you under water.
 
Personally, I haven't struggled with horizontal positioning or face down since returning to a jacket style.
I recently dived for two weeks in Roatan, one from shore and one from a liveaboard, and when I arrived, I found that I had foolishly not packed the single tank adaptor for my BP/W. There was no such device to be found there, so I had to rent jacket BCDs for both weeks. With my experience, I had no trouble trimming out during the dives. After all, even while using a BP/W or back inflate for my diving career, I had taught many hundreds of students with a jacket BCD.

I still hated it because I felt I was diving with an inner tube around my waist. I needed more weight than normal because of that added bulk. My two diving companions had their BP/Ws, and the difference in bulk was significant. That little bit of wing surrounding their tanks was significantly smaller than the mass around my waist.
 
For value, it is REALLY hard to beat this offering from DGX for $400: DGX Custom - DGX Gears Singles Harness / Backplate / Wing Package

I don't get the rational for paying around 2x as much (or more) for any BCD system. Save that money for dive trips!
That is a great deal, and the wing is very streamlined and made by Oxycheq. I was just about to order this set for my daughter.
In my experience, the combination of having front mounted weight pockets in addition to an inflated airbag put me face down @ the surface.
Weird. I can fully inflate and not get pushed face down. While I have read reports like yours, I have never seen issues with this in person. I personally like the endless customization depending on what I want for my current diving. I can remove or change a few things out like (If wanted) to go from cold to warm water diving.

I bought my last back inflate BCD because that was what my son wanted as a new diver. I gave it away shortly after and got him a Bp/w that he has enjoyed much more.

I would tell you to try them both and see what you like and make a choice.
That would be ideal if one has the opportunity to try them both.
 
That would be ideal if one has the opportunity to try them both.
About 7-8 years ago, I was asked to do a private AOW class for a student who had just completed OW. He had gotten immediately excited about diving and was looking to advance through the sport quickly. He had already bought a full set of gear through our shop. As usual when teaching an AOW class, I wore my personal gear rather than the shop's rental gear that I used for OW classes. When he saw my gear, he got all excited. He asked me about the kind of diving I do, and I told him. I was officially the shop's tech instructor, so I didn't see any problem with that.

The shop did.

When he got back to the shop, he wanted to return the BCD he had just bought and buy a BP/W. The shop was not amused. You see, although they officially offered tech instruction through me, and although they could sell him all the gear I had shown him, they did not believe "tech gear" would sell and did not want unsold inventory taking up space on their shelves. They had nothing in stock. They refused to take back the BCD they had sold him, and they could only order him a BP/W since they refused to carry even a display model. Moreover, because they were an Oceanic dealer, the tech gear they had decided to sell was Hollis, and in those days it took months for Hollis to fill an order.

The shop manager thought I was insane to talk about advanced diving (BP/W) with a new diver, and he was very unhappy with me for getting a diver excited about gear they did not have in stock.

Within a year, that diver was fully tech and a DM. He has since moved out of the area, but we occasionally get together for dives, typically in caves. He is a cave diver, tech instructor, and commercial diver. But the shop was mad at me for talking about a BP/W when he was a beginner taking AOW.
 
That is a great deal, and the wing is very streamlined and made by Oxycheq. I was just about to order this set for my daughter.

Weird. I can fully inflate and not get pushed face down. While I have read reports like yours, I have never seen issues with this in person. I personally like the endless customization depending on what I want for my current diving. I can remove or change a few things out like (If wanted) to go from cold to warm water diving.
I don't know where the problem of being pushed face down. My understanding is that it comes from being way overweighted, a big problem in the industry (hence one of top ten changes DAN requested in their 2016 report which with the exception of RAID seems to be ignored).
I bought my last back inflate BCD because that was what my son wanted as a new diver. I gave it away shortly after and got him a Bp/w that he has enjoyed much more.


That would be ideal if one has the opportunity to try them both.
The person can try ANY BP/W. Backplates are backplates, though for taller/shorter people, they'll need the right size. Donut wings (instead of horseshoes) are the way to go as well. Harnesses are harnesses.

I was in Belize where I took my 5 mil wetsuit. With the SS BP and STA




, I didn't need any additional weight when diving with AL80s. It was great. For shore diving with Maui, I don't need to rent weights (as those would be a PITA to carry). Obviously, is I used a steel tank in warm water, I'd have to use my titanium BP or the old plastic BP museum piece I got from @Andrew Dawson

I have added a pocket in the waist to storing things, though my DSMB/spool is clipped on my butt D-ring.
 

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