Air integration for tech dives

[Adobo]

Inquiring minds want to know; are you an old school BAUE guy/gal?

I was in BAUE for a period of time. Then I stopped paying dues largely because I fell out of the dive scene for a few years. I really want to get back into diving as a regular activity again. Maybe not as "aggressive" as before but still want to do it regularly. If that happens, I might ask to rejoin.

Who knows, they may tell me to take fundies again.

BTW, I never owned an Uwatec bottom timer. Though someone from BAUE who had a spare in their dive bag was always around.

 

[flymolo]

I guess the way I was taught to do tech/cave dives, computer function on a dive computer is superfluous. So no matter how advanced computers become, the only information I need from the computer is depth and time. Well, these days, depth average is good info.

The air integration part is specifically of interest to me in this thread. I mean, if you are venturing into tech or cave diving, I would assume that getting your SPG to check how much gas you have left and stowing it again is second nature. That tells you how much gas you have in your doubles. If you add stage / deco bottles, those valves are almost in your face. So checking pressure on those tanks is trivial also.

Not sure I understand what AI is adding to the equation to make a diver's life better.

I think you are pretty much on the mark here

 

[Lorenzoid]

Let's you want to dive with the WKPP. I dunno what the checkout ritual is but let's say one of their crew will want to get to know you first. So let's say you meet up at a dive site and the dude looks at your gear. Is he going to tell you that they do or don't do air integration?

I imagine WKPP folk have a more strict adherence to DIR principles than the divers who happen to have GUE traininng.

Totally. Not just WKPP, of course, but all those projects undertaken by various GUE-affiliated groups around the world. The standardization is important. Divers who take part in those things are a small fraction of divers who trained with GUE, though. If I want to do a weekend dive with another GUE-trained diver, and we agree that AI is AOK, that's a different story.

I'm not C2 yet, either! So for now, I stick 99.5% to the way it was taught in class.

 

[Adobo]

Totally. Not just WKPP, of course, but all those projects undertaken by various GUE-affiliated groups around the world. The standardization is important. Divers who take part in those things are a small fraction of divers who trained with GUE, though. If I want to do a weekend dive with another GUE-trained diver, and we agree that AI is AOK, that's a different story.

I'm not C2 yet, either! So for now, I stick 99.5% to the way it was taught in class.

I mean, if you are doing any cave dives, C1 or C2 (or intro or full cave), seems to me to be even more disincentive to use air integration, no? Speaking of back mount of course. I have no idea about side mount.

Note: If i was going on a cave any dive with someone who said they have to have AI to keep track of their gas, I would probably thumb the dive.

 

[kensuf]

I guess the way I was taught to do tech/cave dives, computer function on a dive computer is superfluous. So no matter how advanced computers become, the only information I need from the computer is depth and time. Well, these days, depth average is good info.

The air integration part is specifically of interest to me in this thread. I mean, if you are venturing into tech or cave diving, I would assume that getting your SPG to check how much gas you have left and stowing it again is second nature. That tells you how much gas you have in your doubles. If you add stage / deco bottles, those valves are almost in your face. So checking pressure on those tanks is trivial also.

Not sure I understand what AI is adding to the equation to make a diver's life better.

Yeah, computers have come a long long long way from the old days, but some of the bakers dozen rules still apply. Even if you opt for the "two computers = redundancy" dive planning that some people use, you better have an idea of your dive plan and projected run-time before you splash.

Although I still use SPGs on my SM rig, I see a serious advantage for it. With SM you need to check pressures and swap cylinders that you're breathing from frequently to balance them out, even using 9" hoses if you have the pressure gauges laying flat on the cylinders you're liable to put a bit of strain on the HP hose and spindle, which can lead to premature failure. With AI, you can just look at your wrist and you're good to go.

 

[tursiops]

I don't have any side mount experience at all so I am a fish out of water on this specific topic. Some comments though

Paraphrased: "I know nothing about this but am going to express my unbased-in-fact-or-experience opinions anyway."

Less interested in what a manufacturer posts about the topic since they have a financial motivation to push their solution. More interested in real people who do the dives. Their opinions are more interesting to me.

You should give Natalie Gibb more credit than this. She is a VERY real person who does the dives.

I was trying to understand how a computer could present the diver the pressure information to a diver in a way that the diver would understand. Apparently in side mount, you can organize the information on the computer such that tanks on the right are on the right side of the computer. The example is with 4 tanks. Not sure what happens with 5 tanks though. Also, spg on stage and deco bottles, its easy to check the pressure. Grab the tank valve and look at the spg. How do you do that when there is no spg on the tank?

Why not argue about 7 tanks? typically you are only going to put transmitters on your back gas, not all the other tanks you carry; they will have SPGs.

How do they manage on backmount tech configuration?

Quite nicely, thanks. AI on back-gas or side-gas, SPGs on extra bottles.

What's the computer look like when you have something like 5 tanks with you?

Since you are typically only showing two tanks, this is a non-issue.,

Not sure I understand what AI is adding to the equation to make a diver's life better.

It is easier/faster/safer to glance at your wrist rather than reach for an SPG, especially in a cave where illuminating the gauge may be problematic. It is also nice to now what is in BOTH tanks, in case of isolator closure or roll-offs.

I mean, if you are doing any cave dives, C1 or C2 (or intro or full cave), seems to me to be even more disincentive to use air integration, no? Speaking of back mount of course.

I find AI more useful in caves than in other tech dives.

I have no idea about side mount.

Yet, you persist.

 

[kensuf]

I mean, if you are doing any cave dives, C1 or C2 (or intro or full cave), seems to me to be even more disincentive to use air integration, no? Speaking of back mount of course. I have no idea about side mount.

Note: If i was going on a cave any dive with someone who said they have to have AI to keep track of their gas, I would probably thumb the dive.

The switching regs to balance SM cylinders out thing is very real. Typically most people swap regs every 2-300 PSI.

In cave diving, when diving BM doubles, once I hit my turn pressure and begin to head for the door, I never need to look at my gauge again. In SM I still need to continually check while I'm exiting. It's just what it is.

 

[Adobo]

Paraphrased: "I know nothing about this but am going to express my unbased-in-fact-or-experience opinions anyway."

Which part did I offer an "unbased (sic) in fact or experience opinion"?

You should give Natalie Gibb more credit than this. She is a VERY real person who does the dives.

I dunno who she is. I dunno who anybody is. My only point is, the manufacturer is not going to put up an article that says our features are ****.

Whereas here, we can have a dialog on what people think and why. I can ask questions. Others can offer counterpoints, etc.

Why not argue about 7 tanks? typically you are only going to put transmitters on your back gas, not all the other tanks you carry; they will have SPGs.

Full cave or C2 in back mount allows you two stage bottles and a deco gas. With your backmount doubles, that's 5 tanks.

Do they have something comparable in side mount? That was the origin of the question.

And is that the mainstream approach for sidemount? Only the two main tanks get AI? In another thread, someone was claiming that they can put somehting like 14 tanks on their AI computer.

Quite nicely, thanks. AI on back-gas or side-gas, SPGs on extra bottles.

Ok so this is really saying, AI is nice. This has nothing to do with tech diving as such. Because for backmount (single or doubles) people have been arguing about AI for ages.

It is easier/faster/safer to glance at your wrist rather than reach for an SPG, especially in a cave where illuminating the gauge may be problematic.

Says you

Yet, you persist.

I asked questions about how it would work with side mount, yes but where did I offer an opinion on side mount? Reference please.

 

[tursiops]

Which part did I offer an "unbased (sic) in fact or experience opinion"?


I dunno who she is. I dunno who anybody is. My only point is, the manufacturer is not going to put up an article that says our features are ****.

Whereas here, we can have a dialog on what people think and why. I can ask questions. Others can offer counterpoints, etc.



Full cave or C2 in back mount allows you two stage bottles and a deco gas. With your backmount doubles, that's 5 tanks.

Do they have something comparable in side mount? That was the origin of the question.

And is that the mainstream approach for sidemount? Only the two main tanks get AI? In another thread, someone was claiming that they can put somehting like 14 tanks on their AI computer.


Ok so this is really saying, AI is nice. This has nothing to do with tech diving as such. Because for backmount (single or doubles) people have been arguing about AI for ages.


Says you




I asked questions about how it would work with side mount, yes but where did I offer an opinion on side mount? Reference please.

LOL. You are on your own, dude. Good luck.

 

[Adobo]

The switching regs to balance SM cylinders out thing is very real. Typically most people swap regs every 2-300 PSI.

In cave diving, when diving BM doubles, once I hit my turn pressure and begin to head for the door, I never need to look at my gauge again. In SM I still need to continually check while I'm exiting. It's just what it is.

Yeah, I appreciate that in side mount, you guys have other considerations.

The genesis of this thread had to do with someone asking about a computer for a new diver. Someone said that high end computer with AI is the way to go. I was saying that even if this person ventured into tech diving, AI is superfluous. Even for tech diving.

I'm an ocean diver. I appreciate that people can dive side mount in the ocean, even for tech dives but I have not seen it. Is it a thing? Backmount tech diving, I don't understand the value of AI.