What if...? Miscellaneous Problems

[SoccerJeni]

Lol at the "smart" part

Don't feel bad. A lot of this stuff wasn't covered in depth or at all in OW. I've just been trying to read through them and catch all the information available to answer as best as I can despite the lack of training & experience. For instance, I noted that I had to wait for my buddy to equalize at 15', viz was 25', and the wreck was at 90'. That told me that at 15' I couldn't see bottom or any of the wreck (unless part of it came very close to the surface which is highly unlikely, as it would be a navigation hazard), so I had no visual reference at that depth to see that we were drifting until I saw the drag marks at the bottom. Meanwhile, other divers from the boat could already be exploring the wreck not knowing our boat was adrift, but with no wreck in sight I don't know which direction to head and would be better served to head right back up the anchor line while I still have that attachment to the boat.

BTW, these are great exercises in thinking on the fly!

Thanks Kenny! I agree with the bolded. It really shows how easy you can get into a mess if you're not prepared.

 

[Cave Diver]

So this was a mistake they did not get anchored in then?

Correct.

That's pretty much it. Either the anchor didn't take at all, or it pulled loose. It seems to me that it was slightly different in the 2 scenarios. In scenario #1, you had to wait at 15' because your buddy had trouble equalizing. When you got to the bottom there was no wreck and there were drag marks showing the anchor was dragging the bottom. To me, this sounds like my buddy & I were the last ones down since he had trouble equalizing and the anchor pulled loose after the other divers were already on the wreck. Therefore the anchor was never holding, or at least set long enough for the others to get to the wreck, but pulled loose before I did.

Correct, except you are the first divers down. All the other divers are behind you.

An interesting twist could be made by assuming you were the last ones down and deciding what to do from that point as well.

(btw, this was another in the list of my "learning experiences")

In scenario #2, you are finishing the dive ready to ascend when you find the drag marks and no anchor. This tells me the anchor was holding at least long enough for me to get to the bottom and leave the anchor line to explore the wreck, then came loose at some point afterward.

For additional discussion we can talk about how your responses might change if you were the first team down and ran into this situation and if you were the last team down.

 

[rhwestfall]

What if...? same situation as above, except this time you find the drag marks, but no anchor after the dive as you're ready to begin your ascent.

:shocked2: Crap myself because its my boat, and its gone!!!!!

 

[Kenny13]

Correct.


Correct, except you are the first divers down. All the other divers are behind you.

An interesting twist could be made by assuming you were the last ones down and deciding what to do from that point as well.

(btw, this was another in the list of my "learning experiences")


For additional discussion we can talk about how your responses might change if you were the first team down and ran into this situation and if you were the last team down.

As previously mentioned, in the first scenario I already assumed we were the last ones down due to my buddy having trouble equalizing. Either way, once I got to the bottom and noticed the anchor wasn't holding I can't see myself leaving the anchor line. If I could see other divers nearby, I would attempt to alert them.

Something else that occurred to me that may or may not be a good idea for the second scenario - once I notice the drag marks and no anchor, it would probably be a good idea to set my compass heading in the direction that the drag marks are going. If it comes to the point where I do have to ascend to a point where I can conserve air and maybe find the boat while still staying below the strong current, I have a compass heading to keep me from getting turned around with no visible navigation aids. I know that may not be the best course of action, but since I can't breathe water I may not have much choice

 

[AzAtty]

For additional discussion we can talk about how your responses might change if you were the first team down and ran into this situation and if you were the last team down.

If you're first down, I don't think anything changes in the first scenario. You need to hook the wreck, so back up you go. Same goes for the second.

If you're last down, I think the first scenario response is identical--go back up and tell the captain he's off the wreck. The other teams will thank you, even though you might miss a dive.

In the second scenario, if all other teams are off the wreck and the hook is gone, you might have a couple different problems.

First, the hook came loose by itself. In that case, assuming I know when the last team left, I might be able to chase the hook across the bottom. But I still think it's better to stay put until the last possible minute. If other divers surface and you don't, the DM/captain will know something's wrong and start looking for you--probably at the wreck site.

Second, someone may have pulled the hook. In that case, the diver count (you hope you have a good DM) will show your team short, and the captain will go back to the wreck to find you (hopefully). Also, following skid marks after an intentional pull won't do any good because the hook will eventually be going UP and the skids will end. Then you're in open water away, downcurrent from the wreck, and good luck to you. Again, staying put as long as possible is the best alternative.

I think one learning experience that can come from the exercise is to request that the DM/captain discuss procedures in the event the hook isn't on the wreck. Knowing how the boat will act affects the best course of action.

 

[Buliwyf]

Miscellaneous
* What would you do if your buddy started making fun of how much air you use?
I really don't care.
* What would you do if another diver criticized your gear?
I really don't care. Dive your own rig. Knock them out with my insanely heavy Scubapro Jet fins, if I can even swing one of them fast enough.
* What would you do if you saw something with another divers gear that you thought was unsafe?
Ask them why they run it that way. Ask them if they feel safe about it, cause I think it's not. Make sure they're not my buddy or in a position to cause me danger. Simple rec dive? Then it's their gear, not my biz. Maybe keep an eye on them.
* What would you do if you overheard another diver on the boat bragging that they planned to do something they were cautioned against during the briefing?
Does it endanger me? No? Then not my biz. Depends on WHAT it is. Tucking lunch meat into your buddies harness on a shark dive or something?
* What would you do if you were trying to change a setting on your dive computer and you and your buddy missed part of the DM pre-dive briefing on a boat dive?
DM's don't mind questions. But I should have been paying attention during the briefing.

 

[Neilwood]

* What would you do if your buddy started making fun of how much air you use?Ignore him and find another buddy if possible - not everyone can get away with sipping air. I doubt someone at my size (6'3 and 200+lbs) will use air at the same rate as someone 5'0 and sub 100lbs.
* What would you do if another diver criticized your gear? Initially listen to them in case the have a valid point about some of my equipment. If not, ignore them and try to find another buddy.
* What would you do if you saw something with another divers gear that you thought was unsafe? Flag it up to them to allow them to take action. If they ignore me, raise it with a DM (assuming boat dive) or dive leader (if in a group). If it is my "buddy" and I consider it to be a danger underwater, I would thumb the dive before hitting the water. Last thing I want is a preventable problem becoming an emergency underwater.
* What would you do if you overheard another diver on the boat bragging that they planned to do something they were cautioned against during the briefing? Stay well clear of him - if he wants to challenge for a Darwin award, let him - I don't have to be a party to it.
* What would you do if you were trying to change a setting on your dive computer and you and your buddy missed part of the DM pre-dive briefing on a boat dive? Ask the DM to repeat it during the talk or pull him aside afterward and ask him

Replies in red.

 

[Regulatrix]

The following post is one of a series of threads resulting from a collaboration between [user]Bubbletrubble[/user] and myself.
We have divided the What if...? idea into a series of topics and posted the main thread as a sticky here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...514-what-if-what-do-when-things-go-wrong.html

Please Read The Following Bullet Points Carefully!

• Our intent for this discussion is to get newer divers thinking, not spoon feed them the answers.
• We're going to ask that the more experienced divers don't just jump in with responses to every scenario.
• Instead, we want this to be a two part exercise for newer divers by doing the following:
  • Quote a given scenario and
  • (1) discuss what they would do given the situation
  • (2) talk about how to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.
• Then the more experienced divers can give follow up comments on insights on those answers.

Anyone is encouraged to a post new scenario for discussion, but please follow the instructions above when answering and keep it relevant to the topic.

Miscellaneous
* What would you do if your buddy started making fun of how much air you use?
* What would you do if another diver criticized your gear?
* What would you do if you saw something with another divers gear that you thought was unsafe?
* What would you do if you overheard another diver on the boat bragging that they planned to do something they were cautioned against during the briefing?
* What would you do if you were trying to change a setting on your dive computer and you and your buddy missed part of the DM pre-dive briefing on a boat dive?

 

[OTF]

A lot of these are super situational. Depending on the details of the issue and the people involved. Also, these sort of issues are exactly why the "just culture" concept is being adopted in tech diving from the medical world. Basically, creating mutual respect and responsibility, fostering an environment where mistakes and potential issues can be discussed freely. Lots of good reading about it online.

Just Culture

* What would you do if your buddy started making fun of how much air you use?
Roll with it, pretty normal banter in my team. If it was some rando on a public boat I guess I'd brush it off, then tell them to eat a nice fillet of Halichoeres bivittatus. If it was someone much better than me who I respect I might make a bunch of lame sad excuses and/or try to get their advice on improving.

* What would you do if another diver criticized your gear?
Depends how legit the criticism is. Notice something is wrong? Major thanks! Want to debate the size of pony bottle or tell me it's stupid to wear 4mm wet gloves in 38 degree water, fair game for debate, let's talk about it, maybe one of us will learn something. Stupid criticism of meaningless things (colors, d-ring count etc.) might not be so well received.

* What would you do if you saw something with another divers gear that you thought was unsafe?
I'd point it out. There's a responsibility to help the team, and no room for neglect in diving. Safety trumps awkwardness. Or maybe I wouldn't point it out, then I'd worry about that diver and regret it all day.

* What would you do if you overheard another diver on the boat bragging that they planned to do something they were cautioned against during the briefing?
That really depends. If it were only a risk to themself "I'm gonna dive this al80 to 150ft" or "I'm qualified, I'm going inside the forbidden wreck" probably nothing. If they're talking about messing with wildlife or acts that would harm others I might step in. Maaaaybe I'd discreetly mention it to the DM/captain and let them handle it, but I'm generally not a snitch. This one is super situational.

* What would you do if you were trying to change a setting on your dive computer and you and your buddy missed part of the DM pre-dive briefing on a boat dive?
This happens a lot. Ask the DM or a more attentive diver if it seemed important. Again safety > awkwardness. In a "just culture" environment there should be no shame in admitting a mistake, asking something, or saying something. That is the diving world we need to create, not the macho attitude of days past.

 

[Divrtim]

What would you do if your buddy started making fun of how much air you use?

Knowing your SAC and your buddies SAC is a basic perquisite to/for survival underwater. If you know yours, its easy to ask another what theirs is and compare. If they dont know, get a different buddy. If they do know and its significantly different, plan your dive and DEPTH together to maximize bottom time for both of you. I've always enjoyed diving with a buddy whose SAC was better than mine( and mine is very good). I'd rather dive with a buddy who is an air hog and comes up the exact number of feet they descended than one who remained the bottom permanently.

Criticized my gear

ALL dive equipment is survival equipment. Some of it is better than others. But I am sensitive that divers buy the best they can afford for the type of diving that they do. In my diving lifetime I've gone through five evolutions of equipment. If you dive enough and live long enough this too shall happen to you.
It's more important to know how your equipment works first and then how your buddies works. I've found it helpful to critique rather criticize. If I point a finger at you, three fingers' are pointed back at me.

What would you do if you saw something with another divers gear that you thought was unsafe?

I can't help but comment on this thread. One of the many diving hats that I have worn is to have served as a DM on a dive boat in So Cal. You would not believe the cluster F***** I've witnessed about jump into the pacific ocean. I've pulled divers out of line, pointed out exactly what was broken or not right that they could see( not having inflator LP hose connected to inflator. saw this a lot). But equally importantly, the things they didn't see or know; like. air not turned on( why do you think DM check this all the time?), tank straps too loose, tank slipping down( didn't soak or wet them before strapping on BC to tank), fin strap coming of or ripped.

Was I anal about all of this? Yes. After all, as the DM it would be me jumping to save their ass. There was one situation however, I'm not proud of this but I'm not a saint: A loud mouth been there done that diver( we all have experienced them) left his dry suit relief zipper open. I let him jump in with his doubles, and bail out cylinder etc. He did make it back to the boat ok but didn't have a lot to say.

What would you do if you overheard another diver on the boat bragging that they planned to do something they were cautioned against during the briefing?

The only way you get experience diving is to dive. The only way you get life lessons diving is to do something stupid and survive a bad idea( like diving naked on my 500th dive). As a DM, I'd suggest rethinking it. If it were my buddy, I'd dive with someone else. Remember: ALL dive problems are more easily solved on the surface than at depth with one exception: stupidity.

What would you do if you were trying to change a setting on your dive computer and you and your buddy missed part of the DM pre-dive briefing on a boat dive?

The main computer relevant to your survival in diving is your own brain. If you don't get the right info into your brain, i.e. the briefing, you dive tool computer is of little value. If you miss the part of the briefing that suggests you not go beyond a certain point at risk of being swept away in a current and then you do get swept away, watching you dive computer flash at you, rack up deco and your air pressure going down, down, down, you probably will hear your brain say, you should have listened to the briefing...regrettably, it will probably be a one way conversation. Dive safe and don't skip the deco stops.