Where to Rent Large Steel Doubles

[lukeb]

I think my main goal is going to be Ocean Wreck Diving. I imagine at some point I will want to go for Trimix but right now I am happy at the AN/DP level.

It seems the standard Ocean setup here in FL is double ALU 80s, but I think I would be happy with some slightly larger steel tanks, even if I don't go for the big 133s!

 

[grantctobin]

I think my main goal is going to be Ocean Wreck Diving. I imagine at some point I will want to go for Trimix but right now I am happy at the AN/DP level.

It seems the standard Ocean setup here in FL is double ALU 80s, but I think I would be happy with some slightly larger steel tanks, even if I don't go for the big 133s!

One thing to ponder is actual exposure times in open water/ocean. Even as you progress deeper, there are some schools of thought that advocate keeping total run time below x hours (say, sub 2.5 or 3) to account for unpredictable surface conditions, tides, weather, current changes, etc. 80s or 85s do make for a well rounded tank, especially for earlier technical diving (AN/DP/Helitrox, Normoxic, Intro to Cave).

 

[lukeb]

So I know it has been a while, but I wanted to give a final update to my tank searching:


After deciding to start cave training later this year, I decided I needed to try and find the big steel tanks I had been searching for. I tracked down two separate Worthington HP130s on Craigslist, and purchased them. I then realized that not all Worthington HP130s are made the same, and that one was noticably shorter than the other! Thankfully my Instructor introduced me to the secret of "one boot doubles", and I had them matched up in height. Before putting a manifold on them, I did some test dives in the pool, and then at Hudson Grotto, using them as independents. They were ridiculously heavy out of the water, but felt pretty good to dive with, and they trimmed nicely. Although I realized my 35lbs doubles wing was not going to cut it (it was almost fully inflated at 110' with full tanks and not very comfortable! Plus it is designed for 7.25" tanks, not 8").

Fast forward a month or two and I take them to get VIPd and to put a manifold on them. One was beautiful inside, and one was full of rust!! (They hadn't been refilled since I bought them, so it was clearly this way not only when I bought it, but when the previous owner, a dive shop, slapped a VIP sticker on it!) Not happy with the situation, I managed to sell the good one after a fresh VIP, and I took the other one back and got a reluctant refund from the seller / dive shop (who had originally put the VIP sticker on the rust filled tank ...).

Ready to give up and resign myself to a life of tank rentals, I then stumbled across a pair of brand new never wet HP120s for $385 each. A diver had apparently bought them, decided they were too big, and then put them up for sale. This was way over my $500 budget, but I liked the idea of new tanks after my rust experience. I tried to find a pair to test in the water before I committed to the purchase, nervous about the extra length making me too butt heavy in the water. But the closest rentals were hours away. After much SB research about HP120s affecting trim (everyone seems to love them), I decided to just go for it. I managed to get the pair for $650 (very pleased!), and headed off to Blue Grotto...

..I love these tanks! I am 6'1 and they trim out beautifully, if anything I am a tad head heavy. They feel much better than the 130s did out of the water (the weight seems better distributed). I managed 4 dives and still had almost 1000 psi in each one! Only issues I found are that I will still need a bigger wing (but that was expected), and the rear D ring is hard but not impossible to clip a reel to.

All in all, HP 120s seem to be the fit for me! Thank you everyone for all your advice. I referred back to it several times during my search!

Also, I am currently AN/DP, and by the end of this year will be Intro Cave as well. If anyone would like a dive buddy in Central FL let me know!!

 

[kensuf]

So the single tank boot thing is, err, questionable at best. I realize you're just learning and don't exactly know what you don't know, and that's perfectly fine, but if a cave instructor gave you that recommendation I'd really suggest asking around for another cave instructor. I would also recommend a wing with at least 55# of lift for that configuration.

Finally, I would also like to recommend this book. Even if you don't buy into the rest of the GUE philosophy, they have the gear stuff squared away and this book may help fill in some gaps in your knowledge.

The Fundamentals of Better Diving

 

[lukeb]

Thanks for the link! I have modeled a lot of my gear setup on the DIR/GUE/Hogarthian rig style, but that information was just taken from the old GUE website, I've never read any of their textbooks. There was actually a Fundies class going on next to me yesterday at Blue Grotto, and I spoke with one of the students. It looked like a good class with lots of focus on skill repetition and maintaining buoyancy and trim (from the fove or ten minutes I watched!).

On the wing front, I have been looking into a bigger wing (Either 44 or 52 lbs lift). I am trying to avoid going too big however, and am trying to use the least wing possible, to reduce drag / taco effect.

Out of curiosity what is the issue with the one boot doubles aside from the aesthetics? I know that boots are discouraged in caves / wrecks because of the risk of catching on the line. Is there any other problems they can cause?

 

[Marie13]

I don’t think a 44lb wing is going to have enough lift. Listen to @kensuf - he knows his stuff.

I happen to like the Dive Rite Classic XT wing.

 

[Micheal]

So I know it has been a while, but I wanted to give a final update to my tank searching:
Also, I am currently AN/DP, and by the end of this year will be Intro Cave as well. If anyone would like a dive buddy in Central FL let me know!!

Where at in Central Florida are you? I live near Lakeland, work in Davenport.

 

[lukeb]

I don’t think a 44lb wing is going to have enough lift.

I'm not using any weights, so I am only compensating for the weight of the tanks and gas + accessories. 35lbs of lift is right at the limit of keeping me neutral, but the wing I have is clearly maxed out, and I want to have enough wing where it is not needing to be fully inflated at depth (it is uncomfortable for a start!). Plus as I add deco bottles and stages etc I don't want to be worrying about running out of lift. That being said, I am trying to use a smaller wing as I prefer not having excess where it isn't needed. I'm trying to decide how much extra lift is just right and how much is too much! It's hard to do without actual diving the different sizes.

Are you using the 45lbs Dive Rite XT or a bigger version? I know the double bladder version is popular with other warm water wetsuit wreck divers.

 

[lukeb]

Where at in Central Florida are you? I live near Lakeland, work in Davenport

I'm in Clermont. PM me if you want to organize a dive sometime!

 

[kensuf]

Wing size: the shape of the wing is an important part of the solution regarding drag. A well designed wing will have minimal drag, even though it provides enough lift for heavier gear. A poorly designed wing will either cause a lot of drag, or work against you in terms of keeping you in trim.

Two stand-outs for me are the Dive Rite Classic Wing, which is a horseshoe wing with 55# lift and hasn't needed to change a whole lot since it was originally released 30+ years ago (it was re-released two years ago), and the Halcyon Evolve, a donut wing with 60# of lift. What makes these wings great is that they have a very low frontal profile, when swimming them they are not huge bumpers around your head and body causing drag.

Being on the razors edge for lift can work against you in some cases when you want to tackle more aggressive dives. Example, let's say you want to add a stage to your dive but you were maxed out on lift before hand? Now you're crashing on the bottom and making a mess.

On the boot thing...

1. Boots can trap sand / silt that can damage the exterior of a tank. I've seen cylinders that looked great above the boot, but were complete rust buckets on the bottom of the cylinder and had to be thrown out.

2. Mis-matched cylinders are no-no's in doubles because they will throw your weighting and balance off. This will impact your trim and potentially your buoyancy, make you work harder, and enjoy the dive less. The idea of using a boot on one cylinder to "correct" the issue of mis-matched cylinders overlooks the bigger issue of the cylinders balancing (no, this isn't what we mean when we say balanced rig).

3. Some people say boots can be an entanglement hazard. I'm not sure I buy into that, but #1 is a real thing and enough to keep me away from boots and #2 is also real.

Good luck on everything.