How long a hose for your primary when using BCD inflator air second?

[Bob DBF]

Once you choose your desired hose length, you'll find that you have a challenge breathing from the same second stage that you're using to control your buoyancy as you ascend with a panicked diver, whose own buoyancy you may also have to control. Very hard to do smoothly at a moment when you need to be at your best. You run out of hands if you need to take the reg out of your mouth to elevate the corrugated hose to vent, at the same time as you're nearing the surface.

Even ScubaPro has a pull dump on their Air 2 now, so I don't see the reason to remove the reg from the mouth. I do see a good reason to be proficient on the pull dump and the entire system. If there is one being made now without a pull dump, please let me know.

Proficiency in the use of one's gear is the most important factor in the positive outcome of an accident, regardless of the gear being used.

Over the years I've tried a lot of gear, and configuration choices, all have their positive and negative aspects, but I have made them work effectively for me, so I'm pretty open minded when it comes to other divers choices.

 

[Jcp2]

...i cant believe its 2021 and people are still buying Air2's...

It’s what was on the used BC. Inflating the bladder with either the tank (higher flow, quick blip) or orally (ergonomic mouthpiece) is easier. I still have separate primary and secondary.

 

[halocline]

I just snapped the attached photo from page 68 of my original 1987 Scubapro catalog. It shows two divers emergency air-sharing, using an AIR 2 and a G250 on a 32" IP hose--while mugging for the camera!

It really is this straightforward. People who have never tried this imagine all sorts of difficulties/complications that simply do not exist.

rx7diver

What you posted was a photo op, not an actual emergency that involves divers who are worried that they will drown in the next few seconds if they don't get air. I have been a DM in a couple of situations like that, and I can tell you that it gets ugly VERY quickly. Having more hose to work with goes a long way towards diffusing someone's panic, and to allow the donor who has just had his regulator yanked out of his mouth some extra room. It makes a HUGE difference. Swimming side by side to an exit is much easier. Ascending is much easier. I know these things because I have been in the real situation, twice.

But, that's only one of the benefits of breathing off a longer hose. The big payoff is that they are more comfortable and more streamlined in the water for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post, assuming the routing is done well. The technical divers really have this one figured out, it's a shame that the typical PADI-type set up hasn't gone the way of the dodo bird.

Now, of course the standard PADI way is workable, to say otherwise would be to ignore the fact that thousands and thousands of recreational divers use that set up with and without an octo/inflator device. But the vast majority of them never actually experience an out-of-air emergency, and the vast majority of them have never tried one of these longer hose primary regulator set ups. For me it was a really big improvement. If there was no other benefit than just the absence of any hose pull-push when turning your head, that alone would be worth it. But the additional streamlining and the improved air sharing really seals the deal.

 

[rsingler]

Even ScubaPro has a pull dump on their Air 2 now, so I don't see the reason to remove the reg from the mouth.

I used to use my pull dump, too. But the bcd gets older, and the ring is secured to the bladder with glue and a screw clamp, and it's an emergency and you yank harder than you thought...

Evidently the BCD was torn at the elbow for the corrugated hose. Read the thread it's in there, no waiting.

From what I was told, he was found in SCUBA gear but no fins. Air was on, 2400psi in the tank. BCD was torn around the inflator elbow. Wearing something like 26lbs of lead, still attached.

I just don't use it any more.
There was a huge thread on this issue a couple of years ago. There's folks that disagree, a lot, about use of the pull dump.

I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, but a torn bcd at the shoulder is a major complication. But I'll admit, it does eliminate the "raise your hose" issue.

 

[rx7diver]

Neither of those in the photo looks like a panicked diver. Practice shares with an Air2 or similar are quite easy, it is only when the SHTF that things become a little harder especially when the panicked diver tries to take control and Polaris to the surface.

I have actually emergency air-shared just like this IRL, with a panicked diver, on a training dive. I think I recounted this incident here on SB years ago. Things went as smoothly as in the photo. And we both lived. I'll look for the old post when time permits.

rx7diver

 

[rx7diver]

...i cant believe its 2021 and people are still buying Air2's...

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an AIR 2. I bought my first one (a 2nd gen) in 1987. Sold it a few months later to fund the purchase of my Mk 10 + G250 (since I, being a grad student at that time, was short of funds, and I needed a second complete regulator because I was about to do Cavern + Basic Cave training in Ginnie Springs FL). Purchased my second AIR 2 (a 3rd gen) a couple of years later, when I was no longer a student. I've never looked back.

Since c. 2004, I've been diving mostly recreational solo to shallow and moderate depths. When diving a single-hose regulator, I generally use only a 1st stage and a 2nd stage (and a power inflator). However, if it's likely that I will be diving around others who are not trained in buddy breathing, I will replace my power inflator with my AIR 2.

rx7diver

 

[rx7diver]

I used to use my pull dump, too.

The Scubapro Stab jacket has a pull dump leading to the over-pressure-relief valve on the diver's right shoulder. We were trained to never use this ball-on-a-string pull dump. We were trained to, instead, reach up to our right shoulder with our right hand, to trip the OPR valve--if we needed to release air using that OPR valve. I still practice this approach whenever I am diving my SSJ.

I, personally, would never trust a pull dump.

rx7diver

 

[ssssnake529]

...i cant believe its 2021 and people are still buying Air2's...

All this Air2 hate has made me think that maybe I will get a traditional octo and practice with both types of secondary air sources before I decide to ditch the traditional octo in favor of the Air2. It's kind of a dorky "belt and suspenders" approach to have both an inflator mounted and a separate octo, but at least that way I can practice with both types and see what I think works best.

 

[ibj40]

We will both probably be saying this in 2025.

I know I will still be diving mine in 2025. Nothing wrong with it, and it is serviced on a regular basis with the rest of my rig.

 

[Bob DBF]

I used to use my pull dump, too. But the bcd gets older, and the ring is secured to the bladder with glue and a screw clamp, and it's an emergency and you yank harder than you thought...

More a reason to inspect one's gear, and ingraine proper habits before an emergency. I sold that jacket after four or five years when I went to a BP/W, so I didn't see the long term effects. My buddy moved to a BP/W about the same time and moved his Air 2 to his wing. It's been over a decade and his is still good, but we do keep a close eye on our equipment.

I don't use one, so anyone can see I'm not a big fan of inflator/reg, however I don't see them as a poor choice, or as dangerous as they are portrayed in the threads here. It is just another equipment choice, and like any other, it is good as the diver using it.