Does everyone really need the LP BCD inflator?

[KenGordon]

Stefin is right that a yanked regulator on a necklace will richocet me back in the face underwater?
Not possible. First of all, the tension on the necklace is low and secondly, as I said above, motion is slowed underwater.

I think you meant Stefin is right that he implied I should not have my primary on a necklace. But it cannot hurt me on rebound.



Haha absolutely not.
I was diving with a dive master and a new diver. We were at 31 meters and about 14 minutes into the dive, the new diver swims up and in front of us and very calmly does the out of air gesture (neck slice hand gesture).

He was trained to gesture out of air and reach for his buddy's (the dive master) alternate source.



I trained PADI about fifteen years ago. I recall training state that I reach for my dive partner's secondary air source - not primary.
I didn't understand the bolded point.
What encumbrance removed? Are you referring to the point of discussion of eliminating the LP inflator hose?
Or that I have my primary on a necklace?

When the police observe my kit and see that I don't have a LP inflator or that my primary was on a necklace?

I mean, when the instructor keeps making stuff worse for the student, no mask, no gas, no whatever it gets harder and harder until eventually it is too much. Back off one thing and it becomes manageable again. You are suggesting starting out with one of those awkward things already done to you by your own choice, when the others arise naturally you will go over the edge sooner. You might think “but I will have practiced manual inflate so much it is second nature” but you will not have practiced it in conjunction with all the other possible difficulties.

When you have no LPI inflator and your buddy just died they will ask further questions about whether you were able to perform your duty of care. They will also think, as indeed any buddy ought to think, “OMG, we have got one here.”

A primary on a neckless is not exceptional.

 

[hedonist222]

Yes and it can still be 23 in a thermocline

Since you live in the area..

If you were to be invited to dive the far Northern Musandam, you'd be grateful for the power inflator, more than once I've been pressing the button at 30m to counteract the sudden downcurrent, often my other hand has the scooter vertical with the trigger on max, to assist in preventing me being pushed down to the sand (which is a further 100m below me). You have ZERO hope if you're orally inflating.

We encounter significant downcurrents a few times a year (because of the sites we choose to dive)

Furthermore. In a stressed condition, see how a diver struggles to orally inflate at the surface vs being able to power inflate, even when just on the Rescue course

Hello neighbor.
A second great point on retaining the power inflator.
First being the ability to remain buoyant on the surface and to assist in a down current. Thank you!
These two points alone merit retaining the power inflator.

I have dived a bit in west coast side of Musandam and all the way up to Ras Bu Mohamed Pinnacle. Fortunately there were no down currents on those dives. Which sites had down currents?

Again, I am not promoting the jettisoning of the power inflator - I suppose this topic can be taken as :

Merits of the power inflator outside maintaining buoyancy.

 

[Jafo19D]

This is an urban myth that isn’t supported by incident reports. People do what they were training to do.

Hmmm. I really believe in muscle memory. I can raise my rifle, switch the safety off to semi and shoot without thinking because we trained in that over and over and over again. If I modify it slightly like switch the safety selector switch to 3 round burst instead I’ll slow down because we didn’t train on that very much.

How much do we really train on OOA ? I’d be willing to say that not much. We may think about it but that’s not the same thing.

 

[hedonist222]

Hmmm. I really believe in muscle memory. I can raise my rifle, switch the safety off to semi and shoot without thinking because we trained in that over and over and over again. If I modify it slightly like switch the safety selector switch to 3 round burst instead I’ll slow down because we didn’t train on that very much.

How much do we really train on OOA ? I’d be willing to say that not much. We may think about it but that’s not the same thing.

I've seen a few instances of ooa divers grabbing their partner's primary.

The main reason I have my primary on a necklace is from a horrid scene I saw many years ago.
A diver became OOA, wasn't within arm's length from partner, and was a few meters higher and behind his partner. So his instinct and maybe only solution was to reach down and yank his partner's primary. Which of course startled his partner and there was a bit of commotion before my partner and I could ensure ensure they both calmed down and had enough air.
On the boat, he was very remorseful to his partner.
He explained that he was a bit off from his partner, ran out of air and couldn't find his partner or anyone else. I recall visibility being poor that dive. He says he was at a point of suffocation that swimming downwards then turning around to ligature his partner's secondary was not an option.

Sometimes out of air divers don't have the luxury of gently reaching for your secondary.
I mitigate this by diving with experienced divers.

I think i trailed off from the topic but thought you all might want to know the reasoning behind having my primary on a necklace.

 

[jadairiii]

I am sure I'm not the first to post this (I didnt read all 7 pages) but in my NAUI basic course in 1975 none of our rental gear had lp inflators on our horse collar BC's. That is how we were taught. Trust me though, once I bought my own BC the first addition to is was a power inflator! Yes, that is right, BC's didn't all come with power inflators standard.

And other than Fenzy and some others that had a separate tank for inflation, the first BC, I believe, to come standard with a power inflator was the WaterGill At-Pac.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Before power inflators, there was a generation of BCDs shaped like a safety collar (much similar to the Fenzy you see in my avatar) but equipped with an LP hose and an inflator attached directly to the bladder, similar to a dry suit.
I had one from Technisub with an orange neoprene foam bladder (terrible). My wife had one, also from Technisub, made of polyurethane-layered fabric (much better than mine). Both had also a small air tank (0.3 liters), similar to the Fenzy. I mean objects like this one (this was exactly my one):

This instead was the one bought by my wife in 1980:

 

[divad]

You can tech this instructor, @jagfish how to set his back plate with wing so when you are unconsciously floating with fully inflated wing your face would be facing the sky.

Never mind...

 

[lexvil]

Sometimes I see things than make me question old sayings, like “there are no s..... questions” but the bottom line her is no you don’t need a power inflator because you don’t “need” a B/C yet they became popular pretty quickly for many good reasons. Why dive such an expensive non b/c when a $20 back plate will do the same job of holding the tank to your back?

 

[hedonist222]

Because previously I needed an inflator.
I stopped diving frequently for a few years.
Then I lost 50 kilograms and turns out I don't need it.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Which sites had down currents?

We dive the North and the NE side. All the exposed sites have Downcurrents with the right combination of conditions.

How much do we really train on OOA ? I’d be willing to say that not much

The trouble is, most people practice few skills outside of training.

When I teach AoW and above we refresh skills. OOA is always a complete cluster in the water, despite having briefed and dry practiced. I point out to students, that when it happens for real, there's no instructor stopping the exercise, and then restarting for another attempt until you get it right

People generally lack familiarity and confidence in themselves and their equipment. With advance training like Tech where you're switching regs or like DM where you're learning to perform skills slowly and clearly, you gain confidence. You'll be surprised how long you can have a reg out of your mouth and no air, there's no need to panic.

Having a runaway LPI or maybe the hose disconnects when they enter. All basic stuff. But people become overwhelmed with the situation, get flustered then panic, All because they haven't practised