PADI?

[Hartattack]

Let me get this straight--

you do not like PADI because many PADI instructors still teach students on their knees, despite PADI pushing otherwise. Please list all the other agencies which have all instructors teaching students off their knees. It will be helpful.

You do not like the fact that some PADI shops require instructors to wear specific gear. Is this a PADI policy? Can you name agencies that do not allow their affiliated shops to do this?

You don't like the fact that some PADI shops are afraid to change and teach with a BP/W (a configuration industry statistics indicate account for 1% of all BCD sales) and have students with lousy buoyancy control. As it turns out, the only shops I personally know that teaches students in BP/W are PADI affiliated. Which agency do you know that has affiliated shops that require BP/W instruction?

In summary--please name the shops affiliated with agencies that do otherwise. (BTW, I used to use a shop that advertised as a GUE instructor development center, and although they did sell Halcyon BP/Ws, the vast bulk of their sales was jacket BCDs, and if you took an OW class from them, that's how you would be taught.)

#1 Look at Instagram, my man. Lots of knees. PADI might be "pushing" otherwise but old habits die hard.

#2 Like I said in my original comment, "I have a few gripes, not aimed explicitly at PADI. Still, more at old school PADI shops who are unwilling to be innovative and focus on quantity over quality" However, I believe SSI has an "official uniform" which requires a certain BCD loadout that they sell in-store. With that said, many LDS I have worked at in the past pushed heavily to wear their gear. It's business, I get it.

#3 Can you please cite your stat on BCD sales? Also, those are the shops you personally know (which I don't know) Nevertheless here are a few examples of ones that I know teach in a BP/W setup, Deepstop, Dive Center Bondi, Eight Diving, EE, Living Oceans, Plongee, Portofino Divers, Scuba Academie, Tech Korea, Zero Gravity et. al.

Cheers.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think some recent posts are indicative of a general problem--some people do not like the practices of some dive shops, and they place the blame on the agencies with which the shops are associated, even if the agency has absolutely nothing to do with the practices.

• Many people do not like the fact that dive shops and instructors are trying to make a living and prefer to be paid for those services. They believe that instructors should provide their services for free. So when they take a class and get charged for it by the instructor/dive shop, they gripe about the "money-grubbing agency" when it is the shop/instructor that is charging them for the course. They have no problems with golf instructors charging $100 for an hour at the driving range, but they believe paying someone to take them underwater and teach them scuba skills should be a criminal offense.
• People do not understand that the idea of a specialty class is simply a way of standardizing instruction in scuba skills and minimizing liability risk in teaching those skills. They do not understand that almost all the money for the course goes to the shop/instructor and attack the agency for requiring them to pay for instruction that should be free.
• People do not understand that pretty much all the agencies do pretty much the same things. I cannot think of any agency that does not teach a variety of courses to cover a variety of skills. Ask yourself this--how else could it be done?

 

[ofg-1]

PADI hate? Is that a new distinctive specialty?

 

[EFX]

In Portugal, the majority of dive schools converted from PADI to SSI.

PADI does not require a facility to teach through as SSI does.

.......and I like that PADI supports independent instructors.

I started my training with a PADI LDS. Two of the best instructors left the shop over a falling out with the course director. They started their own business taking some of the students with them. So, that was money out the door for the shop. Shortly after that the shop changed to SSI.

 

[scrane]

For me, the purpose of an OW course is to impress upon the student the things he may do that will kill or injure him.
And the skills he will need to stay out of trouble.
As in anything else, it is up to the student to get the most from his training. I'm sure a lot of people here learned how to clear their masks on their knees with no lasting damage.
I don't especially like PADI, but I certainly don't "hate" them.

 

[tursiops]

I started my training with a PADI LDS. Two of the best instructors left the shop over a falling out with the course director. They started their own business taking some of the students with them. So, that was money out the door for the shop. Shortly after that the shop changed to SSI.

LOL.The shop I was working with was PADI, but the owner killed a student during a class (left him behind on a tour in a quarry). PADI kicked him and the shop out of PADI within weeks. The shop moved to SDI, who was informed of the reasons for the switch, but chose to do nothing.

 

[boulderjohn]

Also, those are the shops you personally know (which I don't know) Nevertheless here are a few examples of ones that I know teach in a BP/W setup, Deepstop, Dive Center Bondi, Eight Diving, EE, Living Oceans, Plongee, Portofino Divers, Scuba Academie, Tech Korea, Zero Gravity et. al.

Okay, I checked out all of the shops here that you cite as teaching in BP/W, shoops that you cite as examples of PADI shops unwilling to do this. Most of them are PADI shops!

Now, Most of them are also GUE shops, and that includes EE (Extreme Exposure), one of the shops I was thinking of myself. For those who don't know, EE is the home of GUE; its owner is also the owner of GUE and Halcyon. EE, of course, focuses on GUE instruction, but it also offers PADI instruction. Its owner does not teach any more to my knowledge, but he is a PADI instructor (as well as other agencies). Until a couple of years ago, almost all of its OW instruction was done through PADI.

 

[tursiops]

Okay, I checked out all of the shops here that you cite as teaching in BP/W, shoops that you cite as examples of PADI shops unwilling to do this. Most of them are PADI shops!

Now, Most of them are also GUE shops, and that includes EE (Extreme Exposure), one of the shops I was thinking of myself. For those who don't know, EE is the home of GUE; its owner is also the owner of GUE and Halcyon. EE, of course, focuses on GUE instruction, but it also offers PADI instruction. Its owner does not teach any more to my knowledge, but he is a PADI instructor (as well as other agencies). Until a couple of years ago, almost all of its OW instruction was done through PADI.

I suspect many resort locations are PADI so they can accept referrals.

 

[The Chairman]

I beg to differ. Not all agencies are commercial.

I didn't say they were. NAUI used to be completely non-profit when I was an instructor for them, yet they taught you how to market your classes. You even got an extra atta boy for encouraging continuing training in your IDC presentations. While BSAC has some sort of mentoring culture, there's nothing like that in the USA. People don't give equipment or classes away. They have to make enough money to stay in business. Even non-profits have to stay in the black or they'll be gone too. So, I find the idea of non-profits as more of an oxymoron. YMMV.

 

[David Novo]

Okay, I checked out all of the shops here that you cite as teaching in BP/W, shoops that you cite as examples of PADI shops unwilling to do this. Most of them are PADI shops!

Now, Most of them are also GUE shops, and that includes EE (Extreme Exposure), one of the shops I was thinking of myself. For those who don't know, EE is the home of GUE; its owner is also the owner of GUE and Halcyon. EE, of course, focuses on GUE instruction, but it also offers PADI instruction. Its owner does not teach any more to my knowledge, but he is a PADI instructor (as well as other agencies). Until a couple of years ago, almost all of its OW instruction was done through PADI.

The dive shop / school here in Porto that teaches GUE courses, also teaches SSI. Neverthless, Their SSI courses are taught with BPW and primary donate setup.

I am not aware of any PADI/SSI shop/school that also does not have GUE courses that teaches in this configuration.