Over breathing your reg

[jgttrey]

I think the key is making sure you are getting good gas exchange, even when working hard. If that becomes difficult, then you are working too hard and need to stop.

It's easy to become stressed trying to keep up and then start breathing shallow, which only makes everything worse. The reg can give you all the gas you need, but if you are "panting" instead of breathing, you aren't getting it. You are going to accumulate CO2 because much of what you are breathing back in is CO2-rich gas that is in the "dead space" of your windpipe - the last bit of your exhalation that didn't make it out of your mouth. You need to exhale deeply and inhale deeply, or you will continue to build CO2 and feel even more out of breath.

Your OP says you starting getting water in your mouth. Maybe that was just because you were panting instead of breathing and the exhaust valve wasn't keeping up with your aggressive and rapid in/out. But, I would check that for sure. Do a check before your next dive. With the regulator on a tank and the valve closed, you should not be able to inhale. exhale and then inhale a bit several times. That flapper valve should lock shut every time you try to inhale and you should get no air at all.

A pony bottle is nice to have if you run out of back gas, but it won't solve a breathing problem. At best, it would help after you've gotten your breathing under control and you find you are now short of gas. In fact, when you are hyperventilating it is very, very difficult to switch regulators, sometimes impossible. The solution is to stop, completely, and work on breathing deeply and getting a good gas exchange. Shallow up because everything is easier shallow and your gas, whether on your back or in the pony, will last longer.

In your case, if I were at 60' was struggling for breath and couldn't get my buddy's attention, i would:

1. Stop.
2. Focus on my breathing, trying to get deep relaxed breaths and really get good lungfuls going back and forth.
3. Ascend slowly and under control.
4. If I got my breathing in order, had the gas, and could still see my team, I'd follow at 30' looking down on them, because my gas will last 1/3 longer at 30' than 60' and I'm that much closer to the surface if I have the same problem again.
5. If I've lost the team, I'd follow whatever protocol you've agreed on for buddy separation. Usually that's to surface after 1min. You could probably follow their bubbles on the surface.

 

[NAM001]

Marivan. NIce post, and it is not uncommon for this to happen. To over breath a mk20 IMO takes some doing. I have told others this and I will tell you also.
There is only one emergency and that is OOA or OOG. every thing else is just an annoyance and needs to be worked out. This incident will be a memorable one for you and will probably for ever control your diving and how you work with your buddys. Being a buddy is a tough thing to learn. probably the toughest thing in diving yet so natural when you get it down. I have always been a self reliant type of person because of things like this. I also am a great proponent of new divers staying shallow until they have had a chance to experience not only what you went through but so many other things that because you dont know,,,, you dont know. It is supprising how many tanks fall off BCD's and low air situations that are best handled at 40 feet rather than 100 ft. Your OW course only make you functional not proficeint. I can almost bet that you will be thinking what if from now on during your dives.

 

[doctormike]

A pony bottle is nice to have if you run out of back gas, but it won't solve a breathing problem. At best, it would help after you've gotten your breathing under control and you find you are now short of gas.

Yeah, this is an excellent point.

You might carry an alternate gas supply if you plan on continuing a dive without a buddy. Not sure how that would have helped in this situation. There are situations where a different tank might help even if you weren't OOG (leaking reg, bad gas, torn mouthpiece, blocked valve). But that would be planning for two failures - buddy separation and problem with your primary rig. If anything, it might have made things worse, if the OP was in a CO2 panic and tried to switch regs.

 

[Ana]

. Lesson learned. Insta buddy=pony bottle for me. Thanks again guys.

You may want to also consider a more independent frame of mind. Your instructors probably drilled the "buddy concept" but you just had quite a "buddy demonstration" Like others mentioned, most likely your equipment functioned properly but you weren't prepared for a jerk buddy.
Dive as much as you can, read, visualize, do whatever it takes to become a self-reliant diver. Not as hard as it sounds.

In this case a jerk buddy abandoned you, it could've been much worse. What if jerk buddy puts himself in a dangerous position right in front of you? will you follow him?
Will you jump off that proverbial bridge if jerk buddy jumps?
There's a line between helping your fellow diver and becoming a 2nd victim, is a good idea to be able to identify where that line is.

 

[Marivan377]

All very good points. The pint I was making in saying about the pony was just that. In stopping to get everything back to normal. I would then be left behind and basically alone. I know the thing to do is one minute search then ascend. In that minute with a pony I have an xtra independent supply of gas if something else arises and no one is there. Then of course ascend. No the pony would not of helped me in this situation. I did surface with 968 cu ft in the tank. In what felt about 60 sec of chasing I sucked down 400 cu ft of gas. When I surfaced I wasn’t panicked. Just kinda laid back and took a few good breaths and was fine. I don’t think even during I went to full panic because I had enough sense when my mouth filled with water to hit my purge because I couldn’t swallow or breathe. I could of handled way better but I learned a ton from it.

 

[johndiver999]

I don’t think telling a new diver who is so out of breath that he is taking in water, that he should start an ascent from 60 feet is the best advice. If the diver can barely manage to move air in and out, is it reasonable to assume he will be able to manage an ascent?

If he was at 160 maybe, but not 60. The best advice is to just stop, double check adequate air supply and then do NOTHING. Much less stress and tasks to manage. Once a borderline panicked diver starts an ascent, I think there is a strong tendency to kick and use more oxygen, and then things get really out of control.

Running for the surface is not always the best solution, divers should try to first consider working things out on the bottom.

On another note, if a new diver went to 150 feet and got
Himself in trouble, people would be very critical saying the diver was reckless, out of control, irresponsible, poorly trained and who knows what else.

But this situation the diver came close to a potential fatality (if he is taking in water etc.) yet someone described the diver as “safe”’. The seriousness of going way, way past aerobic capacity and getting into the state (as described by the op) is a pretty significant divergence from safe diving practices. The decision to engage in a buddy chase was a poor one and that should not be glossed over. Diving within your
Limits doesn’t just mean depth or deco status, it also means staying in control. I guess we all learn these lessons sooner or later.

 

[doctormike]

I don’t think telling a new diver who is so out of breath that he is taking in water, that he should start an ascent from 60 feet is the best advice. If the diver can barely manage to move air in and out, is it reasonable to assume he will be able to manage an ascent? If he was at 160 maybe, but not 60. The best advice is to just stop, double check adequate air supply and then do NOTHING. Much less stress and tasks to manage. Once a borderline panicked diver starts an ascent, I think there is a strong tendency to kick and use more oxygen, and then things get really out of control.

Looking back over the thread, it looks like everybody just said to slow down and take a vent. I didn't see anyone say that he should run for the surface.

That having been said, if any new diver finds themselves alone with a significant gas delivery problem and no alternate gas supply, I wouldn't blame them at all for just surfacing. Whatever problem there is with the gear, it's better dealt with on the roof. A borderline panicked new diver alone in the ocean at depth is a bad situation.

 

[johndiver999]

I disagree that all problems with gear are better addressed on the surface. For some problems that could be the ONLY viable option, but for lots of other problems, trying to resolve
in place may be much better.

 

[JackD342]

Should add one more note of caution - you say you were in 39F water temp. I don't know what regulator you are diving, but excessive breathing in cold water is one of the factors that contributes to freeze up, which usually results in free flow not OOA. Depth also contributes. So in cold, deep water your dive plan should be deliberately less stressful.

 

[Marivan377]

I see both points in this argument. The fact is if I were to follow what I was taught and just stopped it would not have snowballed. I let the idea that I need to stay with my buddy overshadow MY dive. I’m not saying that I shouldn’t stay with the buddy but I’ll no longer let them dictate the speed to which I move. I love being in the water and this isn’t going to stop me from continuing and learning. I may be a little more selective when dive planning with insta buddies.