Different frog kicks

[Mike1967]

Funny ^^^

 

[dmaziuk]

Over here they really don't like us doing more than one length at a time... some student lifeguards start twitching even when you do it with a brick more than once, with breathers in-between, and not even in the 25-yard lap pool (but the diving well is whooping 4 m deep).

 

[Ayisha]

I agree that it is an effective frog kick, if you are trying to stay off a close bottom to avoid stirring up silt or to avoid the reef when down low close to it, and if you don’t mind moving kind of slow.

A frog kick is actually a pretty strong kick when done efficiently. If you allow yourself to glide in between, you can travel a good distance. A modified frog kick is a slower kick and uses even less energy. They all (especially the flutter kick) can feel awkward at first, but with practice, they easily become the default kick.

Regarding the height of the fins compared to the slipstream, you do usually try and have the fins within the slipstream of the body and tank. Think of where the centre of gravity is on different height divers and think of that as a fulcrum. The diver in the video looks quite tall, and taller divers tend to have (and can tolerate) their fins higher. Women's centre of gravity tends to be lower also, so they may raise their fins higher to maintain horizontal trim. I am very petite, and if I put my fins anywhere near that high, I will totally be head heavy. So my fins are within the slipstream, not too high. Where the fins end up depends on the comfort of each diver. If they don't cause silt, don't go too wide and bump things, help maintain trim, and the diver can control their movement, it's all good.

 

[aquacat8]

That makes a lot of sense @Ayisha !

 

[aquacat8]

As for being head heavy, I also find body position and wetsuit has a big effect. In the old days, before wrist computers, divers would trail their arms along their sides or fold them across the body, and they extended their feet further back with heavy fins kicking on the ends of that teeter-totter. But now, with arms in front and knees bent for cave kicks, feet up so that weight closer in, arms weighing more stuck out in front, I find my lower half is too floaty. And wearing a steel tank if you start to pitch pole, the tank wants to go that way.

Also In 7 mil all that leg area wants to float even more. If you look at guys swimming they often have sinking legs. I’m not a big girl by any means, but my legs and butt are more floaty than a guy’s. Also if you are petite, the weight of even a single regulator at head height is more tipping. Smaller lungs also make for less buoyancy up front. All this adds up to a lot of gals being head heavy, or butt light!

Jet fins really helped me with this, and sometimes clipping an ankle weight on the butt D ring helps. I think I was always foot light before, but I didn’t really notice it until I changed to a modern body position.

One more thing: wearing a weight belt low on the hips used to put weight further down than in modern weight intergrated BC’s. So for some a low slung freediving belt with some weight on it solves the problem.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Despite the GUE orthodoxy there IS more than one way to do the frog kick as well as the flutter kick. The first time I saw someone cave kicking I thought they did not look streamlined at all with their feet up like that. I can do it either way, but in open water when not close to the bottom or silt, for me it feels better to flatten out and kick from the hip. Then again, I was influenced by guys like this, and what does he know?

This is a "Basic Scuba" forum. The frog kick was developed by cave divers to dive in caves where there was the potential for stirring up the bottom. The frog kick is a rather inefficient kick. Here, in the two videos at the beginning, it is presented as a means of conserving air by having a "resting stroke." You can see Frédérick Dumas stroking here in this video from Jacques Cousteau's film, The Silent World, using fins from the 1950s, and being very efficient in his swimming technique.

I have been evaluating and using different strokes over the years, and have found the frog kick for scuba inadvisable in many, probably most, diving situations. When I'm on a mud bottom (rarely) or in a cave (almost never), or inside an extensive wreck (never have dived in one of these situations), I would use a frog kick. But elsewhere, I use a regular flutter kick, or if I'm needing to work against a heavy current (often in the Clackamas River where I dive), then I'll use my Hammerhead unit and a dolphin kick. But there is no advantage using a frog kick in most diving situations.

I have put together a video of my own using different strokes, to show better the efficiency of these strokes. But also note that I did not include the frog kick. This was developed for the specialized diving inside caves and wrecks; it is considered an advanced technique. In this video I show different kicks using my Duck Feet fins which are older than most divers reading this post.


SeaRat

 

[aquacat8]

Nice gear! @John C. Ratliff

 

[Jay]

Ok here is a human doing it... the knees do drop a little because we are not built exactly like a frog. Still it is very efficient. How many breaths did he take?

A breaststroke kick is different than a frog; main difference is what/which part of the body you’re pushing the water with (inner ankles/side of foot vs. Soles of feet/fins). Put a breaststroker in fins and doing a breathstoke kick you’ll be cutting the water. Get a diver to frog kick without fins and you’re not moving much.

 

[aquacat8]

Sigh, I don’t have a video of a fin wearing diver doing it. Am I really the only one who does this? Why is it so hard to explain? It is not the breast stroke, but it is a very flattened out frog kick, not all crunched up like that cave kick. There is a lot of stretch and extension and power and streamlining and it feels fantastic and natural. You only slice the water for part of it. In fins you slice flat on the out stroke then turn the soles of your feet towards each other to almost clap the bottoms together on the in stroke. Maybe men’s hips don’t work well this way? Confused...

 

[aquacat8]

Internet diving is hard