Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[Caveeagle]

Assuming you actually know your SAC rate and understand the minimum amount of gas (turn pressure) you will need to safely get you and your buddy off the bottom, with safety stop(s), and to the boat. The answer is No.

Umm.. an AL40 is still a Pony, and this is about self rescue, not team rescue.

If you are diving below recreational depths then the pony bottle is useless. Does not have enough gas to do the above.

If two divers both depleat their back gas then certainly a single pony is not a solution. And shouldn’t have made it past the pre dive plan.

That said, most (if not all) pony bottle divers dont think about any of the above and use it merely for an "elevator" to the surface without any thought of stops or buddy logistics. A reverse parachute after they have completely **** the bed. There are plenty of divers that create the problems that necessitate a pony bottle. And most of those "problems" start at the dock.

Well, I don’t know, or dive with those sort of people. And would really question this if anyone I knew was in this habit, the whole point is to have redundancy. Depletion of back gas, now makes your pony a single air source and now you are basically screwed. ...If anything else goes wrong.

 

[saxman242]

I assume that those that don't dive with a pony because any need can be resolved with proper planning, gas management and gear inspections don't bother with an octopus for them or their buddy as well, because after all, with proper planning, gas management, and gear inspections there should never be a need to rely on a buddy's octopus.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I have shared air twice with my octopus, once to allow my buddy to swim all the way to our exit and once with the guy I mentioned who has allowed water to enter his pony by running out of air twice. In each instance, the buddy could have easily surfaced from the ten feet we were in. I've never known anyone who ran out at greater depths who didn't die. A pony wouldn't have helped them.

 

[Caveeagle]

Let’s not forget that not every dive is the same. Overhead conditions, or rough seas might make a ESA impossible or unsafe.

Just because one experienced diver with 500+ dives Is comfortable diving solo at 100’ ( wo redunant gas) doesn’t make it a good idea. Newer divers will emulate what they see experienced divers doing. Like it or not. Setting a good example for newer divers is also important.

 

[rhwestfall]

Yes...

 

[Joneill]

Snarkiness aside, I never said you shouldn't carry one, but millions of dives made safely using scuba over the past eight decades without a pony bottle speaks volumes to their necessity. I guess my being a free diver before I began using scuba tends to make me enjoy the feeling of not being burdened in the water by gear that I hope to never use. Dive and let dive.

No one said it was a necessity - the original question was if there were valid reasons for a pony bottle. The fact is that there are valid reasons - not sure why you feel the need to discount those reasons and try to talk people out of carrying a tool that could assist in an unexpected emergency?

As I said, using a pony is a personal choice (I don't carry one at present, but can envision scenarios, like with instabuddies in challenging conditions, where I might want to). Further, just like any redundant/backup/safety gear many of us carry, we hope to never use it - but will sure be glad we have those items if/when the need arises.

 

[grf88]

The fastest I have seen a tank drain is when the diaphragm on my son's first stage let go. We were on a wreck in high current in a virtual overhead in a shipping lane. The reg was almost new with less than 30 dives on it. Fortunately he was close by and we were able to hand over hand back to the line with him on my long hose. Since that time he has been carrying a pony. I prefer to call it a PONEE, Piece of Necessary Emergency Equipment.

 

[W W Meixner]

Folks...

I just can't let this one slide...

When two previously ''unknown to one another'' divers meet on a dive boat...which one gets tagged with the derogatory term ''insta-buddy''...the first diver who thinks he's God's gift to scuba diving...or the second diver who thinks he's God's gift to scuba diving...

Diving with doubles...unless they are correctly configured ''side mount''...or independent ''back-mount'' is not diving with an independent ''redundant'' system...unless...the diver is fully competent in performing ''emergency gas shut-down''...there are thousands of divers around the globe who have dove with doubles for years and could not perform an emergency gas shut-down if you held a gun to their heads...

Considering every piece of dive gear is consumable...further considering most dive gear is manufactured by ''contract jobbers'' for the cheapest price...in third world countries..some of whom are rife with human rights issues...and who still use child labor...the ''consumer'' must be fully aware that any piece of scuba gear...new/old...serviced regularly/serviced infrequently/never serviced...maintained regularly/maintained infrequently/never maintained...can and will fail eventually...

Therefore...''any diver'' who is protected by a redundant bailout system...is 100% better off than ''any diver'' who is not...

Having a ''buddy'' is a good thing...being dependent on someone else to get you out of a ''self inflicted jam'' is not a good thing...

The ''buddy'' that says...''Oh I have the best buddy in the world...he does everything...all I have to do is show up''...is the last person in the world you should be diving with...

Strictly in ''my opinion'' your kit is not complete unless you have a redundant system able to get you safely to the surface from whatever depth you are diving...which includes any ''stop/deco'' obligations...if not...you're likely diving in a location...at a depth...you have no business being in...

And finally...to those with the least amount of experience...think first how you would like someone to respond to ''your'' emergency situation...this isn't about ''you''...

Seasons Greetings...

Warren

 

[Gareth J]

If you believe there is no advantage to a Pony, if you apply proper gas planning and equipment maintenance. Then I guess you dive with one large cylinder, a J valve and double hose.

Equipment improvements, and changes in the way we train divers, have been made to minimise that 1% risk.

We carry an Octopus, not because we need it, because there is a 0.5% case that it might be needed, and the consequence of needing it and not having it are severe.
Similarly, deep diving, we dive isolation manifolded cylinders, rather the old form of two cylinders joined by an un-isolated manifold, for that rare event that we might have a free flow/hose failure etc.

There has been a mix of improved equipment, accident analysis, and changes to training and technique to improve the likelyhood of survival when things do go wrong. The reason for the problem, may be bad luck, poor maintenance, bad judgement or just good old stupidity.

The Pony, like the Octopus, the contents gauge of twin cylinders all have a place, not all are optimal all of the time.

I have and do dive single cylinder OC. I have dived single with a Pony, I have dived twins. Mostly, I now dive CCR with a stage. What I choose to use it partly dependent on where I am and what i am doing, and partly on what I would like to use (I enjoy being on CCR).

I have provided gas on occasion, I have also received gas in dire circumstances (68m). The majority of the time, I much prefer to be carrying my own redundant gas.

 

[60plus]

Has anyone considered breathing from their BCD if their main air supply fails?