OWD license without a doctor's certificate?
- Thread starter JudasFm
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scrane
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Stoo
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It also may have been a timing thing. When I was an active Instructor from '74 to 2000 or so, medicals were required by NAUI in the early days, but then they eased off to a more selective process.
I always felt that this was governed by two things... first, having your GP complete a medical in the olden days was no biggie. Now they want extra money for it. Secondly, and perhaps more to the point, most General Practitioners don't have a clue about diving issues. In my adult life, I've had three different GPs as doctors and non of them knew anything about it, other than stuff like pressure changes might be a thing.
lv2dive
Formerly known as KatePNAtl
Important to note that the form also states that “the purpose of this Medical Questionnaire is to find out if you should be exam- ined (sic) by your doctor before participating in recreational diver training” - I’ve gotten the doctor signature on page 2 and turned in blank checklist (unfilled yes/No) with several instructors and not had a problem.
It might be interesting to have a contract lawyer look over those instructors' paperwork. I mean, it can't be that the sentence
is the only thing that established quid pro quo, in the "binding contract" sense, in their entire courses. Or can it?
SapphireMind
Contributor
I lie on my form all the time. If you take anything apart from birth control for women, you're supposed to put down your meds and get a doctor release - and I have to fill out a new form with every dive shop I've gone to. I've been on an antidepressant for 20+ years. I'm a medical professional myself. I spoke with my doctor prior to going diving, including my specific conditions that could be potentially dangerous for diving: history of syncope (fainting) and asthma. My asthma is mild, I've never been hospitalized, and if it acts up, it would be a reason for me to call a dive, which I am very aware of. My history of syncope is a little more complicated, but suffice to say that I have a med I can take that all but eliminates the risk of it while diving, and I usually have 20-30 min of symptoms at least prior to losing consciousness. All of which I'm very aware of and if I have any symptoms, I would either not dive that day or abort a dive started. I know I will never do technical deep diving for that reason - mandatory deco stops would be an absolute contraindication for me, as would cave/overhead environment diving. And my antidepressant does not pose any additional risks to me diving.
Now, I could get my doctor to write a generic letter, make copies of it, and give it out when needed, or I can just refrain from checking the boxes, but discuss with my buddy my health issues, so if I have to call or abort a dive, they understand why perhaps.
I usually go with the latter. I don't get in the water without people knowing what they need to know about me. but I'm cool with signing away their liability for my conditions.
Now, I could get my doctor to write a generic letter, make copies of it, and give it out when needed, or I can just refrain from checking the boxes, but discuss with my buddy my health issues, so if I have to call or abort a dive, they understand why perhaps.
I usually go with the latter. I don't get in the water without people knowing what they need to know about me. but I'm cool with signing away their liability for my conditions.
In the U.K. the way this works is you go to one of a list of Medical Referees. These people are actual diving doctors rather than any old ‘physician’ who might never have seen the sea. They are in a proper position to judge the risks posed by the various conditions and medications which the prospectively diver has.
It seems to me that a system where a random doctor who has no idea about the complications of hyperbaric exposure or the practicalities of diving has to decide is broken. They really are not in a good position to do so.
Is this all a case of ‘nudge, nudge, wink, wink”? Is it really the plan for people to lie? Streamlines things a bit.
So you say it's ok to lie on medical because you do not want to risk a doctor saying no diving for you due to medical condition. Doing so not only puts your life in danger but also anyone else who is in the water with you who may try to save your sorry ass. Very selfish on your part. I had a 20 something student a few years ago who did exactly what you say, did not check off condition on medical form, which is not a liability release, during training dive he went into convulsions during an ascent. Made him buoyant, dropped weights, ventilated him, towed him 150 yards to boat put him on oxygen. He survived and then when I refused to certify him he had the nerve to ask for a refund. Told him to go away as if I was not attentive to him he would be dead. Convulsions caused by illegal drug use, cocaine, night before dive with him knowing full well that he has these convulsions hours after using drug from previous experiences. I know this is true due to EMS tech informed me of what student told attending ER Doctor. So Caruso, how can you sensibly say to lie on medical ?I wasn't backing away. I know I'm right.
caruso
Banned
@oly5050user, there are several reasons why I sensibly suggest that divers consider the ramifications and consequences of not indicating they have a medical issue on the application form, many of which I already posted about. Also see the excellent post above yours written by @SapphireMind, a medical professional herself, who understands that there can be serious consequences for revealing her medical conditions, maybe even being denied the ability to scuba dive. She has taken precautions, consulted with her own medical professional and knows what she can and cannot do- so she can safely enjoy the sport.
Your post- about some idiot who goes open water scuba diving possibly for the very first time, high on illegal drugs including cocaine, has nothing whatsoever to do with this particular topic which has everything to do with "medical conditions" and nothing to do with "use of illegal drugs prior to diving".
In all fairness, 99% of those "yes'es fit to dive" would be covered by the included few pages of "instructions to the physician". A random physician refusing to sign off on them would be most likely doing it for reasons of their malpractice insurance liability a**-covering. It's only the other 1% that needs a hyperbaric doctor, IIRC there's a video of @Dr Simon Mitchell explaining this stuff out there somewhere.
Much of the problem in Murka is treating healthcare as money-making insurance scam: many people would have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to get checked out by a doctor. Aforementioned malpractice a**-covering is the other part, and the bit where they have to treat sick people regardless, and then need to recoup the costs somehow, is the icing on the cake.
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