OWD license without a doctor's certificate?

[Mike1967]

To clarify

Back-pedalling
Btw the reason you can't find your original post is because it was deleted by the mods, that's how good it was.

 

[caruso]

Back-pedalling
Btw the reason you can't find your original post is because it was deleted by the mods, that's how good it was.

My post is right where it was before. 3rd from the top on page 1.

To further clarify my original post on page one of this thread

I am not saying anyone should lie or omit a medical condition on a scuba diving application form. I am saying that they should consider the box of worms they are opening by checking a box which on the medical form to disclose a certain medical condition, the purpose of which is only to protect the scuba diving instructor and whatever company does the diver's certification.

No different then consenting to a police officer searching your car after a traffic stop. They aren't your friend. What can be used against you, will be used against you.

 

[JackD342]

First of all, if it's for you, then why do you have to submit it to the dive shop (read the form carefully) and secondly: seriously? You have a medical condition that may kill you while diving, and you are so unaware of it you need that questionnaire to tell you? IMO that, if true, should automatically disqualify one as too dumb to dive.

Just in case you seriously are suggesting that medicals should not be required:
In the US and in much of the world, this a self-regulated industry/activity. If we fail on our own to keep this as safe as possible, then someone else will step in and start the regulation and the litigation that we would much rather avoid. Taking it a step further, why do we think that just a Medical Statement and NOT a physical is sufficient for most new divers? Don't school sports and summer camps generally REQUIRE a physical, and not just a questionnaire? Are those less complex and/or more risky?

Yes, I know there are some other gaps. Does your MD have a clue about dive physiology, and either sign off when they shouldn't, or deny it out of an abundance of caution? The last 4 pages of the RSTC form with all of the explanations and references are the initial attempt to address that knowledge gap. And then there is always DAN to find a knowledgeable expert. The bigger gap is that with rare exception, participation in continuing education is the only time that you ever again will be asked for an updated Medical Statement, regardless of how many years it has been. So yeah, after that card is issued you are definitely and completely on your own regarding your fitness to dive.

 

[JackD342]

My post is right where it was before. 3rd from the top on page 1.

To further clarify my original post on page one of this thread

I am not saying anyone should lie or omit a medical condition on a scuba diving application form. I am saying that they should consider the box of worms they are opening by checking a box which on the medical form to disclose a certain medical condition, the purpose of which is only to protect the scuba diving instructor and whatever company does the diver's certification.

No different then consenting to a police officer searching your car after a traffic stop. They aren't your friend. What can be used against you, will be used against you.

I can't see your first post either, so perhaps when deleted you can see it but others can't.

You are basically saying don't lie, but also don't tell the truth. You can't have it both ways.

It is too often sad but true that avoiding liability and fear of other negative consequences is the substitute motivation for just doing what is right - in this case keeping the new diver safe from unlikely but still very real medical problems related to diving. Not only am I not your doctor, but I'm not a doctor at all. So I require these processes to guide or make those decisions for me.

 

[Mike1967]

You are basically saying don't lie, but also don't tell the truth. You can't have it both ways.

 

[dmaziuk]

Just in case you seriously are suggesting that medicals should not be required.

Actually, it's the opposite: when I get in a pool with your germs, I really wouldn't mind knowing that a medical doctor thinks your germs aren't going to kill me. So I think not asking for a medical is the problem. And that problem is entirely orthogonal to the issue of filing a medical questionnaire with a dive shop. Unless of course the dive shop is staffed with medical doctors.

 

[caruso]

I can't see your first post either, so perhaps when deleted you can see it but others can't.

It's right here?

I've never heard of a doctors certificate being required unless one or more of the "I have the following medical condition" boxes were checked on the application.

It would be unwise for a student diver to check any of those boxes unless they were willing to go through the trouble of obtaining a doctors clearance and risk possibly being denied and therefore being unable to dive.

You are basically saying don't lie, but also don't tell the truth. You can't have it both ways.

More like "consider the ramifications of telling the truth".

Back to my analogies again. I love analogies, don't you?

I once witnessed a car accident. Poor kid fell asleep at the wheel after working all night at Burger King, slid to the right side of the road and wham! right into a parked car across the street from my house. He was dazed, groggy, and exhausted. We called the cops, who showed up shortly thereafter, and the kid was like "officer it was all my fault!".

The cop said "Never admit it's your fault!".

In other words- if you tell the truth you might be screwing yourself over.

Same difference with the scuba diving medical form. Be honest or lie and face the consequences, but also consider the ramifications of each choice. I don't see an upside to checking any boxes on the form. Not checking a box doesn't mean you can't go to your doctor and tell them about your medical conditions and concerns and see what they might have to say about it.

I'm simply putting the options out there.

It is too often sad but true that avoiding liability and fear of other negative consequences is the substitute motivation for just doing what is right - in this case keeping the new diver safe from unlikely but still very real medical problems related to diving.

Checking a box on a form doesn't make the diver any more or less safe.

 

[dmaziuk]

I don't see an upside to checking any boxes on the form.

That's 'cause nobody reads the small print. WRSTC form contains the following sentences (in order):

You must complete this Medical Statement, which includes the medical questionnaire section, to enroll in the scuba training program.

(emphasis mine)

Please answer the following questions on your past or present medical history with a YES or NO. If you are not sure, answer YES.

The upside to checking all the boxes on the form is you get to learn to dive.

 

[Mike1967]

I love analogies, don't you?

Analogies are good if they makes sense, your car one does not!

 

[caruso]

That's 'cause nobody reads the small print. WRSTC form contains the following sentences (in order):

The upside to checking all the boxes on the form is you get to learn to dive.

Dude- just because it says "You must check the applicable boxes in order to dive" doesn't mean you have to check the boxes in order to dive!

To offer up another of my favorite anologies

If people were always honest we wouldn't need courthouses.