Brand new OW diver - PADI or GUE to progress?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Wow I had no idea I was about to start a faction war... XD

I'm sorry you are getting exposed to the drama that exists in the scuba industry. It isn't good for new divers to be exposed to it, but since the fire has started, here's some more kindling.

When I started diving, GUE was denigrated by a number of instructors who I thought were "experts". This convinced me for years to not take fundies.

Biggest mistake I have made as a diver. I'd be a far, far better diver if I took fundies early on, and I would have spent a lot less money buying and trying gear.

I'm not a GUE diver. I took fundies and got a rec pass. I'm not working on a tech pass, as I have switched to sidemount for 99% of my diving outside of teaching open water (where I have to be in the same configuration as my students) will be in sidemouont.

There are some really great people at GUE. At least in Seattle, I can say without hesitate that they are a great bunch. While I don't know the entire GUE community in Vancouver BC, I get the same impression. I've heard of negative stories of GUE divers here and there, but in my area, they have all been super friendly and supportive.

So when I took fundies, the best advice I received was "you don't have to drink the Kool Aid, just go for the skills." I understand that GUE has a system that is meant for a specific charter. And that's okay. That charter doesn't apply to me, so I pursue tech training through other agencies. But that doesn't denigrate the high value that anyone taking fundies will have. And if you take any 2 GUE divers, just by knowing their certification level, they know how to dive with each other. Outside of the DIR sphere, it can be a goat rodeo.

GUE sells training, not certification. It is difficult for many people to accept that as that goes against what they've experienced or what they provide as instructors themselves. It can be hard for people from mainstream agencies to face the hard truth that they are not as good as they think they are.

I made it to PADI IDC Staff with poor trim and other issues. I was overweighted. I had a lot of bad habits that were painful to break. Fundies was an ice cold shower. I have had to work hard to break those habits. GUE fundies gave me the foundation to do so. GUE fundies is the single most positive source that has improved how I teach all my courses. I'm not a GUE instructor. I will never be one. But I am grateful to the knowledge and skills that I acquired by taking the course. I highly recommend fundies to anyone considering tech diving or becoming a pro with any agency, in the future.

If you take fundies, you will not regret it as you'll save yourself a lot of issues later on.

 

[stuartv]

@salmon_ella Worry less (than what all these people are saying) about the agency and just look for an instructor that you feel compatible with and that has good credentials. Hopefully, you can find someone a lot closer to home than Seattle or Monterey. All the major agencies have good frameworks in place to allow a good instructor to train you well.

I would also suggest taking some of the more "entry level" courses (e.g. Nitrox, AOW or equivalent, Deep, Drysuit, etc.) from a variety of different instructors, so that you can get an even better idea of what you want FROM your instructor. I.e. to help you hone in on finding the instructor you want to do your more advanced training with.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
I'm not a GUE diver. I took fundies and got a rec pass. I'm not working on a tech pass, as I have switched to sidemount for 99% of my diving outside of teaching open water (where I have to be in the same configuration as my students) will be in sidemouont. . . .

That brings up a thought related to the "membership" discussion above. Who is a "GUE diver"? With the obvious exception of GUE instructors, a GUE diver is someone who thinks of himself a GUE diver. One could be a GUE member and not think of himself as a GUE diver--for that matter, one can have a GUE membership without even being a diver. As in your case, one could pass Fundies and yet not think of himself as a GUE diver, even if, unlike you, in his subsequent diving he adopts 100% of what was taught. I recall a question on the course evaluation I got at the end of Fundies: "Do you consider yourself a GUE diver?" One could answer "yes" without even having passed Fundies, and as far as I know that would have been a perfectly acceptable answer. Theoretically, one could learn the skills as taught by GUE via the online videos or a mentor and decide to think of himself as a GUE diver without ever having taken Fundies. You're free to think what you want. So, "GUE diver" is sort of a malleable term. GUE hasn't formally defined it, as far as I know. I believe it can mean what you want it to mean.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

That brings up a thought related to the "membership" discussion above. Who is a "GUE diver"? With the obvious exception of GUE instructors, a GUE diver is someone who thinks of himself a GUE diver. One could be a GUE member and not think of himself as a GUE diver--for that matter, one can have a GUE membership without even being a diver. As in your case, one could pass Fundies and yet not think of himself as a GUE diver, even if, unlike you, in his subsequent diving he adopts 100% of what was taught. I recall a question on the course evaluation I got at the end of Fundies: "Do you consider yourself a GUE diver?" One could answer "yes" without even having passed Fundies, and as far as I know that would have been a perfectly acceptable answer. Theoretically, one could learn the skills as taught by GUE via the online videos or a mentor and decide to think of himself as a GUE diver without ever having taken Fundies. You're free to think what you want. So, "GUE diver" is sort of a malleable term. GUE hasn't formally defined it, as far as I know. I believe it can mean what you want it to mean.

I get your point. I don't think of myself as a GUE diver as I will never take another GUE class. All my tech training as been through TDI which suits my configuration, goals, and style of diving. I dive solo. I dive air. I only use standard gasses when tech diving. I use two Shearwaters and use Multideco using Buhlmann ZHL-16c for dive planning. I will never use Ratio-Deco and want to stay far away from it. I dive sidemount. Sometimes I use reels. While some of the practices of GUE I have adopted, these are shared by other agencies. I identify most strongly with TDI/SDI as my tech training is from the former and the recreational courses I teach are of the latter.

GUE just doesn't fit me. It is unfortunate that I'll never be able to participate in the GUE Seattle Wreckfests, but I understand why they reserve those events to people who dive the GUE system. But fortunately, there are lot of TDI trained folks for me to dive with. I can however participate in the recreational fun dives (and do when I can)

 

[divad]

Hi! I'm a brand new baby PADI OW diver (just got certified on the 19th) and already looking at options to progress in my diving career. My eventual goal is wreck/light tech diving. Others in my group (my husband who certified with me, a friend who is certified and Nitrox certified, and his wife who is working on her cert) have similar wreck/deep aspirations. We're already started with PADI but I like some of the things I've heard about GUE's emphasis on skills & teamwork (I was a little disappointed in how fast we seemed to blow through the skills...) Any recommendations based on those goals?

Switch to GUE Recreational Course immediately after PADI what-ever-they-call-it-course. You seem to have good instincts........If I may be so brazen. Its too soon for "fundies" and you won't need "fundies" if you go thrugh GUI recreational.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . I identify most strongly with TDI/SDI as my tech training is from the former and the recreational courses I teach are of the latter.

I don't know why we have to label ourselves in the first place. Many of us get training from various agencies and then dive as we see fit. For what it's worth, I wouldn't call myself a "GUE diver" even though I employ a lot of what I learned in Fundies and haven't done much training with instructors affiliated with other agencies. I suppose if I were to participate in a GUE event, I would conform my diving to the standards and think of myself as a GUE diver for the duration of the event. Maybe I'm a chameleon diver.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I don't know why we have to label ourselves in the first place. Many of us get training from various agencies and then dive as we see fit. For what it's worth, I wouldn't call myself a "GUE diver" even though I employ a lot of what I learned in Fundies and haven't done much training with instructors affiliated with other agencies. I suppose if I were to participate in a GUE event, I would conform my diving to the standards and think of myself as a GUE diver for the duration of the event. Maybe I'm a chameleon diver.

oh yes, I agree with conforming at different agencies events, though I'd see if I can dive sidemount instead!

I just use a label to help describe what kind of diver I am. When people say they are a <DIR agency> diver, I know what to expect from them. If people say they are from any of the mainstream agencies, the picture isn't as clear. It really isn't important though. As long as we are safe, enjoy what we are doing, and leave only bubbles (super small ones if we are CCR), then it doesn't matter.

 

[stuartv]

I don't know why we have to label ourselves in the first place. Many of us get training from various agencies and then dive as we see fit. For what it's worth, I wouldn't call myself a "GUE diver" even though I employ a lot of what I learned in Fundies and haven't done much training with instructors affiliated with other agencies. I suppose if I were to participate in a GUE event, I would conform my diving to the standards and think of myself as a GUE diver for the duration of the event. Maybe I'm a chameleon diver.

I have done all my training with SDI/TDI and I am very pleased to feel like this training has enabled me to feel like I can dive with anyone. If I want to dive with my GUE buddy, I can dive a GUE-compatible rig and use GF20/85 with Standard Gases - or whatever my buddy my wants. The sad part is when my GUE buddies miss dives because they can't dive the plan that the rest of the team has decided to use - like gases that are not Standard Gases, or GF 40/80 or whatever.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I have done all my training with SDI/TDI and I am very pleased to feel like this training has enabled me to feel like I can dive with anyone. If I want to dive with my GUE buddy, I can dive a GUE-compatible rig and use GF20/85 with Standard Gases - or whatever my buddy my wants. The sad part is when my GUE buddies miss dives because they can't dive the plan that the rest of the team has decided to use - like gases that are not Standard Gases, or GF 40/80 or whatever.

There are what you describe as "GUE buddies" and then there are people with GUE tech training whom I'd bet would be more flexible in the right circumstances. They're out there.

 

[salmon_ella]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this, it sounds like fundies is probably a good course to have regardless of the direction we end up taking. I know I could definitely use it... Between the 7mm wetsuit, gloves, what felt like a literal ton of weight and a tank strapped to me, I have never before felt so graceless in the water, haha!

(I did at least start to get my buoyancy under control on dive 4, I literally cannot sink in normal pool conditions wearing swimwear so I have an intense and irrational fear of corking to the surface and popping something so erred slightly negative and even on dive 3 was bouncing off the bottom some...)