Does scuba gear often seem severely overpriced ?

[Hoag]

As others have said, yes, dive gear is expensive, but so is the equipment for many other hobbies.

I just bought a Sony A7iii camera and kit lens. After taxes, it came in at just over $3100 Cdn. For that much money, I could have replaced all of my dive gear (3mm wetsuit, BP/W reg mask & fins). I am a recreational diver, so I don't need specific gear. I would likely have some money left over to put towards a trip. And that was just for a camera body and a kit lens.

If we take into account that this spring, I switched from Canon to Sony and I have replaced all of my lenses too, dive gear no longer seems outrageous. This spring, I have bought a 70-300mm lens, a 16-35mm lens (each in the neighbourhood of $1600 Cdn). In total, I have bought a little over $6k in camera gear and I have a camera body and 3 lenses, one of which is a kit lens.

For $6k, I could have replaced all of my dive gear and spent a week on a LOB.

So, IMHO, dive gear is expensive, but it is not unlike other hobbies.

 

[bmorescuba]

People have mentioned photography as a comparably expensive hobby. You really wanna talk outrageous money? Combine scuba and photography. Here's an example:

This small extension ring with a focus knob retails for $680. Yes, $680. And it's not a lens, has no electronics - nothing. It's a small amount of precisely engineered aluminum that only does one very specific thing. Camera housings and strobes are complex pieces of equipment and an argument can be made for their large price tags, but the underwater photography market has a huge number of smaller bits that are outrageously overpriced. There is some relief from 3d printed designs and direct-from-china copycats, but if you really want a money sink, look no further than u/w photography.

I generally agree with the point others have made - quality gear that is built to last is not terribly overpriced in general. The customer satisfaction with something like Shearwater computers is a good example for me. My Perdix was really expensive, but it's built like a rock, has regular updates, great customer service, and good value retention if I ever wanted to sell it. Those aspects make me feel like it was a worthwhile investment.

 

[tursiops]

As an example, over the last year, I've purchased (2) used Scubapro S 600 2nd-stages (a gen 1 and a gen 2 version) @ about $ 150 each. Both are in essentially new condition, so I was satisfied with both purchases, especially since I shopped brand new units and they are running 3 TIMES as much @ $ 450 each !!!

I feel that a brand new unit should be running $ 150 max, I paid $ 150 each for units 10 or so years old, but $ 450 each is WAY out of control!

A second stage is just a molded plastic case with a few mechanical bits inside, upon examination, remarkably simple inside, I'm just blown away @ $ 450 ! I wonder what the cost of production actually is?

No.

 

[RockiesFan]

Yes, it seems overpriced at first, it's the servicing that gets you.

 

[tursiops]

The link I included above provides a quick read on the topic. Including how to calculate it as well as a few industry specific examples.
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/normal-markup-percentage-80750.html

That is a really unusual definition of markup, and does not match any industry I've been in, or any dictionary definition I can find. Scuba, in particular, lives (and dies) by MSRP, typically twice the dealer cost. That is a 100% markup in the scuba industry. As a definition, it would be the amount marked up, divided by the dealer cost. Many items have less markup than this.

 

[KeithG]

That is a really unusual definition of markup, and does not match any industry I've been in, or any dictionary definition I can find. Scuba, in particular, lives (and dies) by MSRP, typically twice the dealer cost. That is a 100% markup in the scuba industry. As a definition, it would be the amount marked up, divided by the dealer cost. Many items have less markup than this.

I get confused easily. It also seems that a resaonably large number of random internet sources freely intermix the 2 different concepts of markup and profit margin. I got them backwards in my example above. A 100% markup gives a 50% profit margin.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I think it's important to remember a lot of this gear can last for decades. I'm beginning to look skeptically at a 34 year old tank in my garage. Yeah, it keeps passing hydro so it should be fine. The original J-valve still works well. There's no protocol reason to get rid of it.

My original regulator setup from 1985 still sort of vaguely exists. Parts became tough to obtain after about 18 years. The gauges/compass console is still original. I also now have a couple of backups I've accumulated over time, and the gauges went to a backup rig.

My weight belt itself has been replaced, but the lead was poured into molds by my openwater instructor at least 33 years ago, maybe more. (He was cheap and so made his own weights and would sell them to students who didn't want to buy from a LDS. He was also totally independent, working with YMCA.) I added soft weights, but now I'm back to using the old lead.

My BCD has been replaced once. And then primarily because newer styles were available, not because the old one failed in any way. Computers worry me a bit more. I'm still on one that's about 10 years old, but I'm really not sure how long it'll be serviceable. And I've got my eye on a new one....

I'm on my second pair of fins, but straps and clips that fit them are tougher to come by (but can still be had). The original fins were not bad, I just upgraded. My choice on that. I also added a pair of warm-water fins for use when snorkeling with my kids.

I've replaced masks over time. Sometimes the skirts got brittle. Over time, my face shape changed and now I need to be pickier on choosing one. (Though I've noticed mask manufacturers have made more models that work for me now than a few years back.)

On the other hand, I try not to think of the wetsuits/drysuits/boots/hoods/gloves I've purchased over time. Or cameras that flooded. (OK, only 2 and one wore itself out.)

All to say the upfront cost can be high, but if you're willing to not have the latest/greatest, you can keep gear running for a long time. And air isn't too bad to pay for. I like to compare it to skiing: The initial set up for skiing might be cheaper, but it won't last as long and lift tickets are really pricey.....

 

[Caveeagle]

The link I included above provides a quick read on the topic. Including how to calculate it as well as a few industry specific examples.
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/normal-markup-percentage-80750.html

My link seems to disagree.
Markup Percentage Calculation | Markup Percentage Definition

No. Titanium regulators are generally "top of the line" in breathy thingies. They're around $1700 each. That doesn't include the FFM second stage you'll want if you're truly going top of the line. I bet it's more like $10k to put together a truly top of the line rig.

Most of us just settle for middle of the road gear like my s600/mk25 regulators (later replaced s600 with ffm).

"high end" bcd's can go for close to $1k by themselves. I've seen wetsuits in that price range. fins? Long blade or Force Fins can easily exceed $500 a pair (not that I prefer these).

You can put together a respectable rig for $3k but it's not going to be top of the line.

Back to the original question. Especially with scubapro, where you're paying for the name in addition to the product. Check out brands like deep6 that have a rep for selling quality products at rock bottom prices.
Also, brands like scubapro really put the screws to you when it comes time for service. Brands like deep6 allow you to service stuff yourself or at least you can have it done for much less.

Gotta love that "top of the line logic"

I would love to see this $1,000 "top of the line" BC. ..and $1k for a wetsuit? Come on man!? You can get a damn fine 5m suit for half that. Less if you look around.

"Top of the line" really means: the brand this LDS sells and has signed their life away to be a dealer for.

Surely there are low end budget lines for several brands. But nearly all major brands perform so well that your average human cannot tell the difference.

This attitude really irritates me and will be the death of the LDS as we know it today. That diver you suckered into buying a "top of the line BC and wetsuit" will eventually be diving near someone like me. And will find out that peopl regularly spend less than half of that to buy nice gear. And then you have destroyed your customers trust.

Sure .."you can't buy gas fills online", but people will adapt. Dive boats offer fills. Many here have set up their own fill station. If I was running a LDS, I would not hang all my hopes on being the only source for gas fills.

I have regs that I trust to take me over well over 1,000 ft back into caves. I am not bothered one bit if you don't think they are "top of the line".

 

[kelemvor]

My link seems to disagree.
Markup Percentage Calculation | Markup Percentage Definition



Gotta love that "top of the line logic"

I would love to see this $1,000 "top of the line" BC. ..and $1k for a wetsuit? Come on man!? You can get a damn fine 5m suit for half that. Less if you look around.

"Top of the line" really means: the brand this LDS sells and has signed their life away to be a dealer for.

Surely there are low end budget lines for several brands. But nearly all major brands perform so well that your average human cannot tell the difference.

This attitude really irritates me and will be the death of the LDS as we know it today. That diver you suckered into buying a "top of the line BC and wetsuit" will eventually be diving near someone like me. And will find out that peopl regularly spend less than half of that to buy nice gear. And then you have destroyed your customers trust.

Sure .."you can't buy gas fills online", but people will adapt. Dive boats offer fills. Many here have set up their own fill station. If I was running a LDS, I would not hang all my hopes on being the only source for gas fills.

I have regs that I trust to take me over well over 1,000 ft back into caves. I am not bothered one bit if you don't think they are "top of the line".

I don't disagree that it's totally subjective. I also agree top of the line is not necessary. My point was that if comparing prices of hobbies, you could definitely spend $10k on your scuba gear. That's not even including high end stuff like rebreathers, dpv's, or fill stations (none of which do I own). Personally even if money were not an object I wouldn't have freedive long fins or force fins. I would have a titanium first for normal diving. I'd also have a much more expensive FFM. There isn't a wetsuit that I want that I don't already own, but leisurepro (who is known for selling cheap/gray market etc) has suits listed at $850. That's not even a custom cut model. As for BCD's, it appears Atomic has one that's $1789.90 also on the leisurepro site.

Then after you buy all that scuba stuff, you might want to buy a boat so you can use it more often...

 

[outofofficebrb]

@Hoag @bmorescuba I think a lot of the reasons why underwater photography equipment is also expensive, and why I might extend that logic to dive gear, is that there is probably a much smaller market than a lot of other industries. By smaller market, I mean less units are being produced and manufactured which in turn drives up the cost because volume is not a factor. There is a fixed cost to machining, tooling, research and development, marketing, and as needed for scuba especially, safety and standards or certifications are probably tested and issued (think Bureau Veritas and the like). There is a lot of overhead as with any industry or company but I think the lack of volume and very unique parts (think about parts in a regulator!) that have to be manufactured probably contribute to that cost.

In addition, I am sure that supply and demand is also at play here. Somewhere along the way, someone started charging a certain amount for something and people buy it at that price. In a way, the market sets the price. If people continue to buy a product category at that price, people will continue to manufacture that product and sell it at that price - they continue to supply it.

I work in corporate retail in outdoor hard goods and apparel and have access to what wholesale (and sometimes, what manufacturer/vendor costs are). It's very interesting. Also, not all items are the same. Yes, you can compare an expensive wetsuit with a cheaper one and say you can get a wetsuit for 1/3 of the price but it will differ. Like a rain jacket or a bike. The products we sell are an excellent example.