Oh, you'll miss the "Ed Experience" then. 
Need instructor to work on buoyancy and trim
- Thread starter Rabbitson
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Oh, you'll miss the "Ed Experience" then.
There's nothing quite like it. I mentally thank him just about every time I drop into the water though.
Last edited:
@The Chairman, is there a short list of things that you commonly see that need to be "fixed" with divers who are having problems with buoyancy? I have a friend who is having some problems and it negatively impacts their air consumption and ability to stay where they want to be in the water column without using their BC as an elevator button. Btw, the diver has done a buoyancy class and Rescue Diver. Any advice would be welcome.
noj3333
Contributor
If you're willing/ looking to travel for your class I'd add another vote for @The Chairman. My wife and I both took his class (while he was in the Keys) and we both enjoyed our time and learned a lot. Maybe hit up the springs for a few days and then venture south to the keys for another few days of diving???
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
- Bad Trim
- Great trim is the foundation on which true neutral buoyancy is built.
- Horizontal trim is the "Scuba Position"
- The physics of diving is just not that hard, but if you don't understand, you can't dive it.
- The Buddha hover is a scam
- Fly Swatting
- Divers often resist the Scuba Position
- They scull to
- Stay upright
- Stop sinking
- because they feel out of control
- They are!!!
- Instead, sculling only
- Silts out the place
- Scares the fish away
- Creates more CO2 thereby increasing your need to suck air
- Learn to fold your hands together.
- Going too damn fast!
- Learn to Zen
- Learn to Frog Kick
- Flutter kicking wastes energy creating more CO2, making you breathe more
- Flutter kicking silts out the place
- Take time to examine your surroundings!
- You'll see far, far more
- You'll stay down longer too!
- The more you exert yourself, the more CO2 you create and the more you have to breathe to get rid of it!
- Relax
- Have fun
- You're already in paradise, so slow down!
- Learn how to handle currents!
- Dodge
- Duck
- Dip
- Dive
- Dodge
noj3333
Contributor
One last post on this, because I didn't have time to post pictures earlier. My wife and I are about dive #50 in these pictures, far from experienced as far as this sport goes...
My wife could still use a little work on her kick (Pete will work with propulsion as well), and trim, but Pete helped take her from SERIOUS issues, to someone who's on the path to trim enlightenment.
Personally, I love cruising alone, feet up ready for a little frog kick when needed... I also enjoy to get right down to sand level, this is especially amazing when there is a group of sand eels and you can almost look across the horizon at the entire group of them in a sand bed.
Being confident with your trim and buoyancy adds an amazing element to diving. It's truly like flying underwater when you have those skills.
My wife could still use a little work on her kick (Pete will work with propulsion as well), and trim, but Pete helped take her from SERIOUS issues, to someone who's on the path to trim enlightenment.
Personally, I love cruising alone, feet up ready for a little frog kick when needed... I also enjoy to get right down to sand level, this is especially amazing when there is a group of sand eels and you can almost look across the horizon at the entire group of them in a sand bed.
Being confident with your trim and buoyancy adds an amazing element to diving. It's truly like flying underwater when you have those skills.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Every diver comes to class for different reasons and with different goals. Some are card collectors and others really want skills more than anything. Some know they have a lot to learn, but for whatever reason, they don't want to put much effort into skill improvements. It's all good. We all dive for different reasons and have different motives for our diving. Working with a couple with divergent attitudes can be a bit challenging, but it's worth it. You learn what you want to learn and toss the rest. No harm, no foul. Everyone is different and that's OK. Dive and let dive.
However, classes should be challenging and you should be able to learn what you came to the class for. A good instructor will help you rise to the level you want to get to, but never be disparaging or demeaning.
However, classes should be challenging and you should be able to learn what you came to the class for. A good instructor will help you rise to the level you want to get to, but never be disparaging or demeaning.
Thank you @The Chairman! These are all great pointers. I'm so glad to hear someone (with authority) say the Buddha hover is a scam!
Btw, there are times I seem to be able to do the frog kick - it just clicks - and other times I can't get the rhythm of it. But I keep trying.
Btw, there are times I seem to be able to do the frog kick - it just clicks - and other times I can't get the rhythm of it. But I keep trying.
For practising buoancy as well as finning skills there is little a "destination" will do for you over a local pool or lake (a bit early for the latter). With a scuba diver cert. you can practice with a dive master in the water with you ... or an instructor of course. Taking your time and just practising to hover calmly a couple of feet above the floor (as a reference for good trim) and then experimenting with breathing a little deeper and a little less deep to change depth a bit goes a long way. Take a few hours of pool practise time locally if you can find it guided if you wish, but w/o pressure to need to achieve something right now. Give yourself the time to feel it. Once the pressure is off you will.
Of course flying somewhere to train with a particular instructor is not wrong either, but then the pressure is on again. At that particular time you have to be healthy the instructor has to be healthy, you have a time limit... etc...
Once you are comfortable hovering horizontally at a depth in the pool and can change your depth and then hover (no forward propulsion) there,
.. really, your buoancy is quite good. If you can do that and you passed all the skills to get the scuba diver cert., you definitely can finish the OW cert. ... at home once warm enough or anywhere you want to.
My wive was struggling during OW in FL in wonderful warm water with good visibility. Not a natural in the water. She also came home with a scuba diver rating. Back home, after a couple of months of break, she finshed her OW training in a local quarry with cold water and 5' to 15' visibility (pending where). The instructor praised her sky high.
She wasn't diving that good, always at a trim of 20... 30 degree inclined, but the praise, patience and confidence building did the trick for her to get through...
Since then we practiced hovering and diving over and around a platform once (two half hour dives) and it slowly got a little better. Nothing since October.
A couple weeks ago she dared to go to pool practice with me. Out of the blue she was in horizontal trim. Just like that. Maybe because she started in 4' of water and getting anywhere there does not work well unless horizontal. Maybe because prior stuff sunk in. Maybe because she could see herself in a mirror I brought and hung... No idea. But she fees the practice helped and she feels she could tell a difference. So could I and others...
Long story short: Pool practice with aim on trim and buoancy is good. better if with feedback. The floor as reference below you is your friend to figure out if you are horizontally trimmed. You do not necessarily feel it at first. You may need the reference. A mirror might be helpful too (it's not necessary, but instant & self witnessed feedback helps a lot more than a hubby or friend or instructor trying to tell you what you did, when in your head you think you know it was not so... ) Mirrors don't lie.
Edit 1: P.S. I am neither an instructor nor a DM...
Convex mirror works well for instant feedback
Edit 2: This thread may be interestin to you & ser page 10...
Maintaining Trim while motionless
Of course flying somewhere to train with a particular instructor is not wrong either, but then the pressure is on again. At that particular time you have to be healthy the instructor has to be healthy, you have a time limit... etc...
Once you are comfortable hovering horizontally at a depth in the pool and can change your depth and then hover (no forward propulsion) there,
.. really, your buoancy is quite good. If you can do that and you passed all the skills to get the scuba diver cert., you definitely can finish the OW cert. ... at home once warm enough or anywhere you want to.
My wive was struggling during OW in FL in wonderful warm water with good visibility. Not a natural in the water. She also came home with a scuba diver rating. Back home, after a couple of months of break, she finshed her OW training in a local quarry with cold water and 5' to 15' visibility (pending where). The instructor praised her sky high.
She wasn't diving that good, always at a trim of 20... 30 degree inclined, but the praise, patience and confidence building did the trick for her to get through...
Since then we practiced hovering and diving over and around a platform once (two half hour dives) and it slowly got a little better. Nothing since October.
A couple weeks ago she dared to go to pool practice with me. Out of the blue she was in horizontal trim. Just like that. Maybe because she started in 4' of water and getting anywhere there does not work well unless horizontal. Maybe because prior stuff sunk in. Maybe because she could see herself in a mirror I brought and hung... No idea. But she fees the practice helped and she feels she could tell a difference. So could I and others...
Long story short: Pool practice with aim on trim and buoancy is good. better if with feedback. The floor as reference below you is your friend to figure out if you are horizontally trimmed. You do not necessarily feel it at first. You may need the reference. A mirror might be helpful too (it's not necessary, but instant & self witnessed feedback helps a lot more than a hubby or friend or instructor trying to tell you what you did, when in your head you think you know it was not so... ) Mirrors don't lie.
Edit 1: P.S. I am neither an instructor nor a DM...
Convex mirror works well for instant feedback
Edit 2: This thread may be interestin to you & ser page 10...
Maintaining Trim while motionless
Last edited:
Since you are relatively close to @Trace Malinowski I would suggest taking a class with him. I have not trained wqith him hut from all I have seen and read, you will have a quality instructor who values good buoyancy, proper trim and appropriate propulsion techniques.
I feel your pain with the frog kick. I was having all kinds of problems learning this. My biggest issue was I wasn't turning my ankles and thus getting zero propulsion or at at least very minimal propulsion. I was also constantly thinking about it when I was diving.
@RainPilot suggested that while watching TV, I lay in bed on my stomach and practice, what is essentially making my feet "clap". I did this for a few nights, still struggled when diving but noticed every few kicks I would move faster in the water. Then one day, I was just diving, having fun, watching one of my favorite fish, the parrot fish. Never paid attention to my kicks. Once out of the water I was told "well looks like you got that frog kick figured out" I had no idea it was even working.
I am learning that at times, it can be beneficial to just dive and not focus so much on one area. Letting the lizard brain Brendon keeps talking about take over and you may just find you actually do know how to do it. Muscle memory seems to take over for us when we aren't so focused on forcing a technique.
At least that is my experience so far with my training.
I feel your pain with the frog kick. I was having all kinds of problems learning this. My biggest issue was I wasn't turning my ankles and thus getting zero propulsion or at at least very minimal propulsion. I was also constantly thinking about it when I was diving.
@RainPilot suggested that while watching TV, I lay in bed on my stomach and practice, what is essentially making my feet "clap". I did this for a few nights, still struggled when diving but noticed every few kicks I would move faster in the water. Then one day, I was just diving, having fun, watching one of my favorite fish, the parrot fish. Never paid attention to my kicks. Once out of the water I was told "well looks like you got that frog kick figured out" I had no idea it was even working.
I am learning that at times, it can be beneficial to just dive and not focus so much on one area. Letting the lizard brain Brendon keeps talking about take over and you may just find you actually do know how to do it. Muscle memory seems to take over for us when we aren't so focused on forcing a technique.
At least that is my experience so far with my training.
Similar threads
