Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Someone mentioned earlier the store with beer. See, I can't go in a store without buying something. So, there I was int he store drinking beer and chatting, and the owner offered me a deal on DIR knives, which look suspiciously like a broken steak knife. I could have them for "cost" if I'd just take both of them. I still have them, they have never been in the water.

I'm sure that couple of beers has more than paid for itself.

When I open my dive op in the Greek islands, one of the things I want it to be is a place to hang out: have a little bar, comfortable seats. I want the shop to be in a high traffic area, close to the marina/harbor which tends to be the hub of the "choras" (main town on each island), so that I have a big screen TV that I can swing in front of the window showing people things they can see underwater, how the classes are run, etc., etc. If I'm servicing regs, vipping tanks, etc., I might stream that to the screen.

There will definitely be free coffee all day. Because I won't be selling gear (with maybe few exceptions), I don't want the backpacker crowd draining all my funds through free beer. Maybe sell it at cost to break even. But have a few freebees to get people to sign up for a dive charter and possibly classes (confined water will be just off shore near the aquatics center where I'll be renting water toys).

While this comment is slightly OT, I've been getting a lot of ideas for my future business.

 

[ystrout]

From the way I read it, it wasn't at the resort, it was in town. That was a major ___ move. If you are going to buy online, don't go into shops. Part of the justification of these shops is the service.

Correct, it was at a shop in town, not the mountain.

And we did tell them why we were returning it. The cashier threw a bit of an adult temper tantrum. But we came in with every intention of buying. We DID buy, until we realized the same boots were 30% cheaper online! They could have price matched, but they were too set in their ways. I'm not going to give a store an extra $150 to "support them". That's not a ____ move, that's smart shopping. There's a huge difference. Paying that much extra for something is flat out stupid.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

They could. They could not let people try something on until they have paid for it - and then they get to try the different sizes to see what they like. However, that wouldn't be a smart business decision. They could charge an entry fee to enter the store - but that usually isn't a smart business decision either.

They'd be out of business in no time.

With traditional retail you have the pain of people using your store as an outlet to try things to buy elsewhere. With e-retail, you have to deal with far more customer returns and things going missing in the post. Both have there pros and cons.

That's a problem that I do not think will never be solved.

If (and I never will) I owned a shop I'd be happy for people to come in and try stuff. I'd want high footfall. Even if they didn't buy that product from my they might buy something else. It's a numbers game.

If you can get some sales through traffic, I see your point. But if it is just to help them decide where to buy online, that's another issue.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Correct, it was at a shop in town, not the mountain.

And we did tell them why we were returning it. The cashier threw a bit of an adult temper tantrum. But we came in with every intention of buying. We DID buy, until we realized the same boots were 30% cheaper online! They could have price matched, but they were too set in their ways. I'm not going to give a store an extra $150 to "support them". That's not a ____ move, that's smart shopping. There's a huge difference. Paying that much extra for something is flat out stupid.

No, that is certainly a ___ move. Of course the boots were cheaper online. What do you think that shop's rent and employee costs are as compared to online? That's already been covered here. You didn't do your homework before buying. You could have easily looked up the price online before even trying the boots on and walked out the door. But instead, you did a ___ move.

If I ever have a business, please don't come in. I have no idea who you are as you are anonymous, but I am not. Thank you.

 

[Wookie]

No, that is certainly a ___ move. Of course the boots were cheaper online. What do you think that shop's rent and employee costs are as compared to online? That's already been covered here. You didn't do your homework before buying. You could have easily looked up the price online before even trying the boots on and walked out the door. But instead, you did a ___ move.

If I ever have a business, please don't come in. I have no idea who you are as you are anonymous, but I am not. Thank you.

I like you Kosta, but please don't take it personally. The whole thread is about what's killing dive shops. If I had to pay by the word, I wouldn't say "What's killing dive shops is dick customers", I'd say "What's killing dive shops is dick dive shop owners". The truth is somewhere in between, but you're taking one guys shopping habits as if it's a personal slam on you, slamming back, and showing the reason folks hate their LDS.

When I shop on Amazon, no one ever says "Don't shop here", they just fulfill my order. When I buy from LeisurePro, no one once says to me "I don't like your diving style, please choose another shop". I am guilty of this too, which is why I'm no longer in the charter boat business (If you don't like what I serve for dinner, choose another boat). Guess what? Folks chose another boat.

 

[runsongas]

now I'm curious what you were serving for dinner

 

[HantsDiver]

If you can get some sales through traffic, I see your point. But if it is just to help them decide where to buy online, that's another issue.

I'm not here to argue. I've done that enough on this thread.

But think about the cost vs reward.

If someone is going to shop online they are going to do so. If they are going to find the best price they will do so. For 'big' purchases I do the same. For smaller stuff, I just can't be bothered.

Now I probably spend more on 'small' stuff like boltsnaps etc than most people spend on normal gear. If I was alienated I just wouldn't come to that business. So no gas (inlcluding helium) and no business at all from me. I can get everything online if I want - apart from gas. But then I could just order a j of helium and o2 and blend up my own if I bothered to buy a compressor.

If something costs you next to nothing and gets them in your store then that's a good thing. With enough numbers you will make sales. Don't try and turn people away.

 

[Wookie]

now I'm curious what you were serving for dinner

We refused to cater to fad diets, gluten free, unless a celiac, and vegetarians could just eat around. Obviously anyone with a food allergy would be accommodated. I always liked the folks who said "I'm gluten free" and ate every brownie on the boat. Until I charged them $50 for special diets. Suddenly they became not so gluten free.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I like you Kosta, but please don't take it personally. The whole thread is about what's killing dive shops. If I had to pay by the word, I wouldn't say "What's killing dive shops is dick customers", I'd say "What's killing dive shops is dick dive shop owners". The truth is somewhere in between, but you're taking one guys shopping habits as if it's a personal slam on you, slamming back, and showing the reason folks hate their LDS.

When I shop on Amazon, no one ever says "Don't shop here", they just fulfill my order. When I buy from LeisurePro, no one once says to me "I don't like your diving style, please choose another shop". I am guilty of this too, which is why I'm no longer in the charter boat business (If you don't like what I serve for dinner, choose another boat). Guess what? Folks chose another boat.

Frank, none of this is personal to me. I'm just expressing my opinion of such customers. I don't own a shop, never will. I will have a dive op, but that's focused on chartering/lessons. So I'm not affected by this. Also, I'll be in the Greek islands. If you have never been, you should go. It is a nice, relaxed life. Not luxurious, but really nice.

Yes, dick dive shop owners who don't understand the importance of relationships and are not business savvy is the bulk of the problem. However, dick customers don't help either. I talked to one shop manager who told me one time he spent 2 hours with a customer to find out what would fit him, work for him based on his diving needs etc.. And then the guy said thanks, left and bought everything online. He didn't even give the shop a chance to match the price. Now this manager is a super nice guy, an asset to the local diving community, but he was justifiably furious. He kept his cool, but vents a bit each time he shares the story.

Such customers are fortunately the the exception and not the rule, but they do make an impact. They make the shops lose money, as employee time is money.

One of my students was looking for a manifold for his doubles. Now the DGX one for $100 simply cannot be beat. Thermo Pro, XS Scuba are all more than double that. For a shop carrying the XS Scuba line, they just can't compete. In that case, the shop manager understood completely why the customer (my student) bought that item online. However, the customer bought everything else from that shop (regs, tanks, BP/W, dry suit), so the shop still did quite well in the end with that customer.

Dive shop owners/managers need to be fair. That's part of customer service. But customers shouldn't be exploiting them either. I'm selling some of my dive gear that I'm not using. Recently someone asked me if the price is firm. My response was a question on if the price was unfair or too high, given that this item was in excellent condition, hardly used, not modified, and the asking price was a little over half of what it would be new. So I explained that I thought not only this was a fair price, but also a good deal. That's a nice way of me saying that the price if firm. I try to be fair with stuff that I sell. I want people to be happy with what they buy from me. I try to bite my tongue when people try to low ball me. I've never lowballed anyone. In fact, I bought a used BP/W at almost retail cost from a guy who had to dump his dive gear to pay for his young daughter's medical treatment. Lowballing him would have been particularly low (and people were trying). I tried to pay full retail, but he wouldn't take it. So I paid $50. At least he got some use out of his gear before being forced to sell it, and I didn't screw him over, but helped him in a small way.

 

[ystrout]

No, that is certainly a ___ move. Of course the boots were cheaper online. What do you think that shop's rent and employee costs are as compared to online? That's already been covered here. You didn't do your homework before buying. You could have easily looked up the price online before even trying the boots on and walked out the door. But instead, you did a ___ move.

If I ever have a business, please don't come in. I have no idea who you are as you are anonymous, but I am not. Thank you.

Online outlets have warehouse leases and employees as well... Evo doesn't do performance rentals and this shop does. A $500 manufacturer suggested retail price already factors in a markup. This shop is getting greedy because of the convenience of being right by the mountain. Sure, they'll get sales from people who want to ski the gear the next day. That's their business model and what differentiates them from an online business. But throwing a fit about lost sales to savvy shoppers not only makes someone sound entitled, but flat out stupid to not understand that this is how business works.

You say do homework before buying? Are you kidding me? So you'd not let anyone in your store to look around? Guess what, that's where a ton of impulse purchases come from. Some return the gear, quite a few keep the gear. And you don't want someone in your store that buys the best deal? With you attitude, if you ever have a business, you're going to fail, then you're going to come on here and ***** about how it's not your fault and that 'smart shoppers' put you out of business. Welcome to 2018.

So here's some advice, and I'm sure most people will agree that you're going to need it. Competition exists. You can't complain that better deals will put the hurt on your business. Do something to differentiate yourself.