Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[arew+4]

I blame millennials.

The 200M Smart Phone...
If you build it, they will dive!

They will probably die, but since they will be live streaming it, it will make recovery a cinch

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I don’t think so. I think if somebody want’s to get certified, especially to dive around here, they will pay it.
But I would be carefull not to hike it too high to fast. But the fact remains that tuition is not keeping up with the cost of doing business.

I don't think it is about fleecing the customer, but charging a reasonable amount so that there is a profit while paying the instructor a fair wage. Let's not forget that the new diver interfaces with the instructor a whole lot more, and that relationship is important to the industry. The churn of instructors is unhealthy. What kind of vibe do outgoing instructors have on their students? And how does that impact those students from really getting into this activity?

We are all in this together. And by we I mean instructors, dive shops, and training agencies. The drama that exists among and within these groups is at times counterproductive. On occasion (but not often enough) it can be productive, as some do deserve a swift kick to change their behavior/policies.

 

[runsongas]

I blame millennials.

Blame the boomers who left them saddled with debt and offshored all the jobs

 

[StefinSB]

I blame millennials.

The 200M Smart Phone...
If you build it, they will dive!

They will probably die, but since they will be live streaming it, it will make recovery a cinch

^This

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Blame the boomers who left them saddled with debt and offshored all the jobs

Millenials are an easy target. They are not responsible for the screwed up country they are inheriting. People mock them for getting participation trophies. Well, they are not the ones handing out those trophies, "we" are. Rather than insulting them, we should better understand how we can motivate them to dive and how to work within their financial constraints to make that happen.

 

[Wookie]

I don't think it is about fleecing the customer, but charging a reasonable amount so that there is a profit while paying the instructor a fair wage. Let's not forget that the new diver interfaces with the instructor a whole lot more, and that relationship is important to the industry. The churn of instructors is unhealthy. What kind of vibe do outgoing instructors have on their students? And how does that impact those students from really getting into this activity?

We are all in this together. And by we I mean instructors, dive shops, and training agencies. The drama that exists among and within these groups is at times counterproductive. On occasion (but not often enough) it can be productive, as some do deserve a swift kick to change their behavior/policies.

I'm not exactly sure why you say the bold part. Look at why folks are instructors, run dive shops, and own training agencies.

Why are most of us instructors? A zillion reasons, including we love diving, we love teaching, we love being in the water and it gets into the quarry, on the boat, paid to "live in paradise", or laid, all for free. I think the zillion reasons go away if you look carefully at the first 4, which covers 95% of instructors. I was 3 and 4, personally.

Why do we have dive shops/boats/sell gear for manufacturers? Because you get to take cool trips that others don't, and you might make a little money. Of course, the shop owners making money aren't taking trips, and the shop owners taking trips aren't making money, which is the point of this thread in the first place.

Why do we own training agencies? Well, certainly the number one reason is that the only folks making dough in the dive business are some manufacturers, and the training agencies. I am friendly with a number of training agency owners, and they all started their agency to be better than PADI. They saw something they felt PADI wan't doing right, and they knew they could do better. Now, if they made decent training material, they found that they could make money. Lots of money. But PADI is the world leader training agency at making money. It's what they do. We can all spout the altruistic BS they do (Project aware, DSAT, etc), it all makes money. Believe me, if it didn't, they wouldn't. So training agencies start out to fill a niche and end up chasing the dollar.

So don't think we're all in this together. If we were, we'd all be making money, but we aren't. As long as people will work for peanuts to get into the quarry free, we'll have instructors who work cheap, because money isn't their motivation, and as long as we have shop owners traveling, they will fail, because money isn't their motivation. Shop owners need to run shops, not trips. Y'all keep holding DRIS and Dolphin up as shining examples. Ask Mike how many 2 week vacations to Palau he takes....

 

[boulderjohn]

Of course, the shop owners making money aren't taking trips, and the shop owners taking trips aren't making money, which is the point of this thread in the first place.

The dive shop I used to work for is doing very well financially, and they make most of their money off of dive travel. They have 16 group trips scheduled for 2018, some of them for multiple weeks. My best guess is that the owner will lead 5-6 of them.

 

[runsongas]

anywater sports seems to be doing well too.

i don't see the owner taking a trip to palau/indonesia/etc being the difference between a failing shop and a successful one. if the shop is well run, the employees should be able to take care of day to day operations without heavy oversight.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'm not exactly sure why you say the bold part. Look at why folks are instructors, run dive shops, and own training agencies.

Why are most of us instructors? A zillion reasons, including we love diving, we love teaching, we love being in the water and it gets into the quarry, on the boat, paid to "live in paradise", or laid, all for free. I think the zillion reasons go away if you look carefully at the first 4, which covers 95% of instructors. I was 3 and 4, personally.

Why do we have dive shops/boats/sell gear for manufacturers? Because you get to take cool trips that others don't, and you might make a little money. Of course, the shop owners making money aren't taking trips, and the shop owners taking trips aren't making money, which is the point of this thread in the first place.

Why do we own training agencies? Well, certainly the number one reason is that the only folks making dough in the dive business are some manufacturers, and the training agencies. I am friendly with a number of training agency owners, and they all started their agency to be better than PADI. They saw something they felt PADI wan't doing right, and they knew they could do better. Now, if they made decent training material, they found that they could make money. Lots of money. But PADI is the world leader training agency at making money. It's what they do. We can all spout the altruistic BS they do (Project aware, DSAT, etc), it all makes money. Believe me, if it didn't, they wouldn't. So training agencies start out to fill a niche and end up chasing the dollar.

So don't think we're all in this together. If we were, we'd all be making money, but we aren't. As long as people will work for peanuts to get into the quarry free, we'll have instructors who work cheap, because money isn't their motivation, and as long as we have shop owners traveling, they will fail, because money isn't their motivation. Shop owners need to run shops, not trips. Y'all keep holding DRIS and Dolphin up as shining examples. Ask Mike how many 2 week vacations to Palau he takes....

That's weird, I didn't mean to put that in bold. I do think it is in everyone's interest to be somewhat cooperative. Yes, people are making more money, but the industry could be healthier is my point.

 

[BRT]

Here's the reality.... desperate dive shops are LOSING MONEY and closing.

That's based on a volume model. They charge little... and STILL don't get enough students.

Because charging little... you need LOTS of students. And there really aren't any...and most of what there is do an EVEN CHEAPER course overseas on holiday.

Charge more... to make profit from smaller volume.... and raise quality to JUSTIFY that cost and show a value to it.

At the moment... the onky answer is to desperately flog kit... which doesn't work in an Internet era...

As a retailer I know that we have to be somewhat competitive on price, but..... If I buy gidgets for $1 and sell them for $1.50 and can sell 10 a day or can buy them for $1.25 and sell sell them for $2.00 and sell 5 a day I'm probably better off selling them for $2.00, making most of the gross profit and dealing with less customers who are also less price conscious. Deciding to buy them for $1 and sell them for $1.25 in hopes of selling 25 a day is probably not going to work and dealing with a large bunch of price shoppers will give me ulcers. I started from a farming background and only understood buying and selling on price. My business has done a lot better since I decided to sell based on service. If my business model is based on ordering in only what someone wants to buy from me I am going to go broke in an internet world. The fact is today that I can almost always buy cheaper using Google than through my suppliers, and anybody else can too if they know what they want and are willing to wait.