Why no redundancy in mainstream rec scuba?

[chrisch]

@chrisch
Not gonna stop diving, cause I love it so much

Good - I am really pleased you have not been put off.

For my mentality, it's more of trying my best to stay with the buddy, so that I would be able to assist if needed.

Good that is the best way to think IMHO.

However, with redundant measures, I would still be able to save myself in the worst case scenario (e.g. getting tangled when low on air without buddy in sight)

I struggle to think of any way you can get into such a pickle. If you want to use a bailout please at least get some training or proper instruction with it. There have been the odd few people drown themselves with a pony tank.

For my situation, I'm thinking the best solution would be to just find a permanent buddy that I can trust and rely upon.

I wish you every success in finding someone. Get your girlfriend diving - that is the best buddy you can have.

I spent quite a lot of time reading and learning about optimal equipment configuration, safer practices, concepts like rock bottom calculations, and also some extra knowledge on deco procedures, diving physiology, mechanisms of diving equipment etc, in order to improve on my diving and minimise risk at the same time.
Gonna take a self reliant diver course in the near future as well.

Good. Sounds like a great plan. Dive safe. Have fun.

 

[CT-Rich]

I wish you every success in finding someone. Get your girlfriend diving - that is the best buddy you can have.

Your dive buddy is only as good as the last argument....

 

[Steve_C]

Why do bother with a buddy at all?

I enjoy the social aspects on the boat.
Since I have a camera and am looking for critters, they often point out things to me.
I like pointing out things I find for them.
Since they are often less experienced I enjoy being a "guide." So they are really not interfering with my goals.
Most of the time I find diving with a buddy that stays around more pleasurable than being solo.

None of that has anything to do with counting on them for support if I have an issue. If they can provide it that is fine. If not I will take care of myself. Got caught on a piece of line on a wreck earlier this year. Took out knife. I could cut it, and was starting to do so, but it was in a awkward position for me and buddy that day knows I have reduced shoulder mobility. Buddy came over, took my knife, and cut it for me.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I know this wasn't the original question--which, if I understood correctly was along the lines of "why don't the training agencies consider all this stuff part of the 'essential' rec equipment set--but I can think of at least one reason why some divers might carry more stuff with them on every dive knowing full well it is not essential stuff for the average Caribbean vacation dive: A diver might make it his habit to carry certain items so that it becomes ingrained and therefore less likely to be forgotten or in need of maintenance, etc., on those dives on which the item IS more likely to be useful. For instance, a compass. I can understand a diver making it a habit to wear a compass on his wrist on every dive, no matter what.

 

[Sam Miller III]

The use and apparent dependency on redundant equipment is a silent testimony to status of todays "divers" and their training -

Most or many who are experiencing the underwater world evidently begin with little or no aquatic experience, have little or no swimming ability live in an area that is bone chilling cold, often raining, sleeting , snowing or covered with snow for most of the year: they have never seen an ocean or tasted salt water , who are "trained" for the most nominal conditions, such as falling off a boat into the waiting hands of a fuzzy faced guide for a tour of a reef, yet in their minds have been and are christened "divers," when in actuality should be identifies as some one who occasionally vacation "dives."

They some how save their hard earned Yankee dollars make a trip to the tropics and in a matter of a few trips have magically made 1000 or even more "dives-- "

The joy of being a "modern diver" ----who with all their stories of adventure in far off places are the center of attraction at a cocktail party. .

It very apparent dive training is not going to improve -- If anything dive training with became even more abbreviated in order to attract and retain for additional training the untapped future diver from the hinterlands of America and the far corners of the world for a life time of repetitive training ,adventure, and exotic travel -- That is until the equipment needs repair or the exposure suits wear out, then it is time for another area of adventure

I suspect that some time in the near future diver training or a specialty will be "Redundant equipment. " and after reading this thread it cannot happens soon enough--



Sam Miller, III

 

[chrisch]

...
I suspect that some time in the near future diver training or a specialty will be "Redundant equipment. " and after reading this thread it cannot happens soon enough--

Both the PADI Self Reliant and SDI Solo Diver courses are more or less exactly that.

 

[boulderjohn]

People speak of the trend toward shorter classes. Although classes are certainly shorter than they were 40 years ago, I don't see anything like a trend. I was certified 20 years ago, and the course I took for that certification was shorter than any I have ever seen in my following years as an instructor. I cannot possibly teach the course today in as little time as it took me to get certified then.

That shortness was accomplished by skipping a number of standards, something I did not realize until years later. That is still the only way to shorten the class. The academic materials are just as extensive as they were 20 years ago. You can learn the material online now, but you still have to learn just as much academic material. Nothing has been taken away from the requirements for the pool and the open water, and several new standards have been added. If anything, a modern class run according to standards should take more time now than it did 20 years ago.

 

[dmaziuk]

Will it then be safe to take a breath out of?

If you are serious: my biochemist wife tells me it's what they call a "cell disruptor", with some anti-viral stuff added. It'll kill all the nasty bacteria and also the skin on your face -- this is a mask rinse bucket we're talking about.

(I use it on our BCD bladders. I rinse the oral inflator thoroughly, let them dry, and then store them for the winter. It will be months before my skin cells get anywhere near those sanizide-treated sufrfaces.)

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I'm a very new diver, but I already see the appeal in redundant air for dives to deeper depths.

As I have no permanent dive buddy, my experience with relying on your buddy for redundancy hasn't been very good.I just can't see the safety factor in treating your buddy as your redundancy option, and as such would rather carry an extra pony bottle just to be on the safe side.

But all in all, I too agree that the circumstances of the dive and the acceptable amount of risk for the diver himself would dictate his own equipment configuration, and shouldn't be criticized overly unless it presents a huge amount of risk that the diver is plainly unprepared to deal with.

I'm not being critical, but why would you get in a situation when you, especially as a new diver need a pony? Having a C-Card means that at the minimum you have the skills to surface without a buddy. Buddy seperation does not mean out of air. As you have learned already, a buddy can not be relied upon as a redundant air source. You need to be able to take care of yourself and your equipment. Equipment failure is so rare that you should be able to read your SPG and be at the surface before running out of air on every dive. There is no excuse for running out of air.
Adding more equipment to solve a problem does not remove the problem. You have to learn to avoid the problem in the first case.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . Equipment failure is so rare that . . . .

From that other recent thread on pony bottles, I got the impression that the fear of equipment failure is the major impetus for seemingly so many divers carrying a pony these days. If I recall, things like a LP hose rupture were mentioned. Rare, for sure, but it was mentioned that it has happened. (Reg freezing, too, but that wouldn't apply to diving in tropical or temperature waters.)

Personally, I wish the agencies would just get serious about instilling the buddy system in new divers. Make being a good buddy and taking it seriously part of the course requirements. If you don't have each other's back on the checkout dive, you don't pass. If the vast majority of divers were to strictly adhere to the buddy system, this perceived need to lug along a pony bottle on every dive would vanish, and we could all get back to enjoying the freedom of recreational diving as we envisioned it.