C-Card roulette

[sigxbill]

the idea is to take courses with an instructor that will make you a better / safer diver. it is not just to collect which cards you think will get you a seat on a better boat going to better dive sites.

One wants to increase their knowledge and skills because they want to be safer? Great! One wants to dive more advanced sites, but the operator requires a card that results in increased knowledge and skill? Great!

Regardless of the motivation, I am a huge believer in continuing quality scuba education. Why not take a course to get to better sites - even if the diver doesn't know it will make them a better / safer diver? In this case of collecting a card pass to get to better sites, better / safer diving just happens to hopefully be the inevitable byproduct of a quality course! Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? doesn't matter to me ...

What matters to me in regard to c-card roulette - after investing in my scuba education, and also investing in getting to a target site, is picking the right card to get the optimal result from the operator. I have found that difficult sometimes. But I also think that when c-card roulette becomes an issue, it's often best to find another operator. The problem is that sometimes on vacation, there isn't time to recover from the mistake of choosing the wrong operator. That is why I usually resolve c-card roulette vs operator before I go - then in most cases c-card roulette is a non-issue ...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It really depends on the boat, but usually, I show my highest level instructor cards. The benefits of being left alone to do my own thing outweigh the risk of being asked to buddy up with someone. Most times I get left alone to do my own thing. When there is some hesitation on that I show my SDI Solo instructor card.

I also make it a point to choose ops that will let me dive solo if I want to.

It's also made clear that if they tell me I have to buddy up with someone, then the trip is comped and they are going to pay me $50 a dive to watch over the person.

On the other hand, if a new diver is honest with me and asks me to buddy up with them I likely will. As long as it's not a dive I consider too challenging for them or beyond their training and experience, which I will ask about in detail.
If say the dive is on the Spiegel Grove or the Duane and I had planned on seeing some specific place in the wreck, I'm not going to take them. Even if they have an overhead cert, I don't know them and I don't go into overheads with unknown quantities.

But a simple reef dive? Sure, c'mon. If they suck down their air in 20 minutes and we have an hour dive time, I'll escort them back to the surface, see they get on the boat, and go finish my dive.

As a pro, who has also been consulted by a few attorneys on diving-related cases, I can tell you that hiding your cert isn't going to do a thing. Any decent attorney WILL find out the cert levels of anyone on board if something happens. Not necessarily to sue you but just to be clear on the facts.

Some MIGHT even question why you didn't disclose your highest level. Again, not to sue you but just to cover all their bases. I would imagine that saying "I didn't want to be asked to babysit" is a fine answer in 99.9% of the cases. But remember they are looking for anything that will help their client win. Win meaning gets paid. So they may jump on anything they consider deceptive.

I prefer not to take chances and just be upfront about everything.

 

[KevinNM]

Slightly off-topic but related....

The wife and I called ahead and chartered a small dive boat with skipper just for the two of us (my birthday present). We drove several hours to get to the town, booked a hotel room for three nights and showed up at the dive shop the next morning only to be confronted with 5 pages of questionnaires about our health, dive history, etc.

The wife checked "yes" to whether she was on prescription meds (controlled hypertension) and was asked to produce a doctor's certificate to prove she was fit to dive. We'll we didn't have one with us but luckily she was required to obtain one a month earlier in order to take her drysuit class. The shop accepted that her doctor's certificate was on file with another dive shop known to the operators and we were allowed to dive.

So what good was her OW certificate? She had to get a doctors OK to get her OW cert to begin with!

I lie. I understand my medical history and there is nothing that is a contraindication for diving.

 

[stuartv]

So what good was her OW certificate? She had to get a doctors OK to get her OW cert to begin with!

Her OW cert could be many years old. You could develop all kinds of medical conditions between getting your OW cert and now.

I think every diver should take responsibility enough to know that if they have ANY possibility of answering Yes on any medical questionnaire, they should take a doctor's medical clearance with them to show the dive operator.

 

[admikar]

I am not at that point yet, but this threads gave me a few points to consider:
- American legal system is screwed by "sue as much as you can";
- how does it work for someone not belonging to that same system, like rest the world?
By the time I go to my international dive vacation I will be CMAS 3* diver? How does that correspond to Rescue dive cert?
Second, someone in USA sues me, MY legal system will protect me, by going over lawsuit and deciding whether it is justified "by our legal system" and deciding if get extradited or not to the USA.

 

[gcarter]

I am not at that point yet, but this threads gave me a few points to consider:
- American legal system is screwed by "sue as much as you can";
- how does it work for someone not belonging to that same system, like rest the world?
By the time I go to my international dive vacation I will be CMAS 3* diver? How does that correspond to Rescue dive cert?
Second, someone in USA sues me, MY legal system will protect me, by going over lawsuit and deciding whether it is justified "by our legal system" and deciding if get extradited or not to the USA.

You can be sued in the US whether or not you are extradited or show up on your own. And you could have a judgement against you that may impact on any future visits.

 

[jlcnuke]

Her OW cert could be many years old. You could develop all kinds of medical conditions between getting your OW cert and now.

I think every diver should take responsibility enough to know that if they have ANY possibility of answering Yes on any medical questionnaire, they should take a doctor's medical clearance with them to show the dive operator.

So how often should they have to get a new medical questionnaire filled out by a doctor in your opinion?

Before every dive?
Every week?
Every month?
Every quarter?
Every 6 months?
Every year?

My doc said I was good to go diving, but didn't put it on a form (email only). So I sent in a form and asked to have it filled out (answering honestly I'd put yes on every medical questionnaire for the rest of my life). It's been 2 months so far, so I shouldn't dive because some arbitrary form that isn't going to change anything (I already know my doc is fine with me diving and know what I need to do medically to do it safely). I'm sure you'll say something like "get another doctor" but that's not how the VA works. I did end up paying more money out of pocket to get some doctor that doesn't know me, or diving medicine, to sign off on a PADI questionnaire so I could do a class last month.

Seeing a doctor costs many people time and money. Money is valuable and so is time. Wasting it to have another copy of the same form filled out when nothing in my medical history has changed seems pretty stupid and arbitrary to me. Hence why so many people just lie on the forms, because their common sense wins out over throwing money away.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

Her OW cert could be many years old. You could develop all kinds of medical conditions between getting your OW cert and now.

I think every diver should take responsibility enough to know that if they have ANY possibility of answering Yes on any medical questionnaire, they should take a doctor's medical clearance with them to show the dive operator.

Fair enough now that we know. This operator required the five pages of paperwork but we were caught by surprise since three other operators only asked to see our certification cards.

Another weird situation.... One of the largest dive operators that the wife and I have been diving with regularly over the past four years had absolutely no problem letting my wife and I dive with dry-suits. When the wife later decided to take the drysuit class with the same operator they required her to fill out the questionnaire and provide a doctor's OK. It seems silly that we can dive by ourselves but need the doctor's OK for her to dive with an instructor. I would have thought it safer to be diving with an instructor. Perhaps this is a PADI thing.

 

[jlcnuke]

Fair enough now that we know. This operator required the five pages of paperwork but we were caught by surprise since three other operators only asked to see our certification cards.

Another weird situation.... One of the largest dive operators that the wife and I have been diving with regularly over the past four years had absolutely no problem letting my wife and I dive with dry-suits. When the wife later decided to take the drysuit class with the same operator they required her to fill out the questionnaire and provide a doctor's OK. It seems silly that we can dive by ourselves but need the doctor's OK for her to dive with an instructor. I would have thought it safer to be diving with an instructor. Perhaps this is a PADI thing.

As I understand it, PADI requires their medical questionnaire (and doctor's sign-off if required) for every course of theirs.

 

[rick00001967]

for what it is worth......if a medical is required for an SSI course, that medical is valid for 12 months unless the student becomes ill or is injured within that time. in which case another medical would be required.

for diving with a shop (not taking a course) it is up to the shop to apply whatever standard they feel is required to protect themselves and the customer.

even if i as an SSI pro want to take another pro level course i must submit a medical no more than 12 months old.