Tech through PADI or TDI?

[stuartv]

Because, as an instructor, you are certifying them as competent to carry out a given level of diving.

Does it not seem pretty hypocritical to hand out plastic cards certifying someone at a given level, then desperately plead with them to NOT to conduct dives at that level?

Isn't that basically what we do with every OW student? I mean, you're being extra dramatic there. But, the bottom line is that we don't hand new OW divers their C card and then tell them "sure, you are now totally clear to go out with your classmate here and go diving completely on your own for whatever shore dives you come across. Or get your other buddy to take you out on his boat and just drop you in the drink."

We tell new OW divers to be cautious, use good judgment and common sense to gradually work their way up to diving at the limits of their certification.

 

[kensuf]

Because, as an instructor, you are certifying them as competent to carry out a given level of diving.

Does it not seem pretty hypocritical to hand out plastic cards certifying someone at a given level, then desperately plead with them to NOT to conduct dives at that level?

It seems damned hypocritical to me...

But hey... wink wink, nudge nudge... the student is probably just gonna go out and do whatever they want... up to the limitations of their new card and what dive operators sanction.Right?

So everyone wins with TDI.. The instructor hands out shiny cards but has to counsel some students NOT to do those dives (ethical doubts thus alleviated)... and the student gets a card that empowers them to leap onto into very unforgiving, high consequence dives that, sooner or later, Mr Murphy will join upon..... but hey,. . bangs for the bucks.. when it comes to paying for training courses, right?

There's no upper limit on decompression obligation a brand new TDI DP graduate can get themselves into. The day after they've completed DP they can jump in and do a dive that earns them 5 hours of deco, if they so choose it.

However, a big part of the training involves explaining that the shiny card is a license to learn, to build experience slowly and safely, and that it is not a license to go on the freeway at 100mph from the get-go. I explain to my students that ~10 minutes is actually a fair amount of deco based on their current experience level, and build from there slowly.

As an instructor you have to evaluate your student before issuing them their shiny card. The criteria used for evaluation includes more than just physical skills, but also emotional/mental skills - is this student mature enough to engage in decompression diving without direct supervision of an instructor? If the answer is no, then you do not issue the card.

It's really that simple.

 

[DevonDiver]

Isn't that basically what we do with every OW student? I mean, you're being extra dramatic there. But, the bottom line is that we don't hand new OW divers their C card and then tell them "sure, you are now totally clear to go out with your classmate here and go diving completely on your own for whatever shore dives you come across. Or get your other buddy to take you out on his boat and just drop you in the drink."

We tell new OW divers to be cautious, use good judgment and common sense to gradually work their way up to diving at the limits of their certification.

I don't teach OW, I teach technical diving. I've done so as a full-time living for a decade.

I see very little similarity between teaching OW and teaching tech.

You're a qualified entry-level tech diver right? You should know..

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Isn't that basically what we do with every OW student?

Abso-freaking-lutely not!

I consider myself a middle of the road instructor, but I'm still able to create divers confident and capable to dive within OW limits. But I don't just teach the slate. Now I created and continue to fine tune the dive planning exercise I provide my students. I just realized that I'd like to cover site selection more thoroughly.

But if an instructor tells their OW students to be wary of diving to 60 feet, that instructor is joke.

 

[stuartv]

Abso-freaking-lutely not!

I consider myself a middle of the road instructor, but I'm still able to create divers confident and capable to dive within OW limits. But I don't just teach the slate. Now I created and continue to fine tune the dive planning exercise I provide my students. I just realized that I'd like to cover site selection more thoroughly.

But if an instructor tells their OW students to be wary of diving to 60 feet, that instructor is joke.

So, the opposite of what I said is "we teach them to feel free to dive to the limits of their certification on their first dive after they finish OW class."

Is that what you teach?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So, the opposite of what I said is "we teach them to feel free to dive to the limits of their certification on their first dive after they finish OW class."

Is that what you teach?

Yes. They can go off to dive in similar conditions 60 feet or shallower. I encourage this. I am fortunate in that there are a lot of good dive maps for free online, and there is a website, planyourdive.com, that provides tide and current information.

 

[stuartv]

I don't teach OW, I teach technical diving. I've done so as a full-time living for a decade.

I see very little similarity between teaching OW and teaching tech.

You're a qualified entry-level tech diver right? You should know..

Yes. And every class I have taken, from OW right on up to Helitrox, I came out feeling like I had gotten a license to learn (to steal a phrase) at a higher level. In every case, I came out feeling like I was allowed to dive with deeper/higher/whatever limits, but that I should start with my current level of experience and work up to diving at the limit of my new certification gradually.

I'm not saying I always did that. But, that's what I came out of the class understanding myself to have been taught.

 

[stuartv]

Yes. They can go off to dive in similar conditions 60 feet or shallower. I encourage this. I am fortunate in that there are a lot of good dive maps for free online, and there is a website, planyourdive.com, that provides tide and current information.

So, you teach PADI, is that correct? I have never taken a PADI course. What I'm gathering is that your students are only certified to dive to 60'? And they could never dive past that (and be considered to be within their certification limits) until they take more advanced training?

 

[boulderjohn]

So, you teach PADI, is that correct? I have never taken a PADI course. What I'm gathering is that your students are only certified to dive to 60'? And they could never dive past that (and be considered to be within their certification limits) until they take more advanced training?

No, as has been said several hundred times in the past. Divers are expected to use good judgment in extending their limits as they gain both training and experience.

We know that you have never taken a PADI course, but you do love to tell everyone what is wrong with them, don't you?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So, you teach PADI, is that correct? I have never taken a PADI course. What I'm gathering is that your students are only certified to dive to 60'? And they could never dive past that (and be considered to be within their certification limits) until they take more advanced training?

Yes, I am currently a PADI instructor.

They can do whatever they want post certification. I recommend to them to seek further training when they wish.