Yelled at for MOF

[Neilwood]

I put my mask on my forehead all the time on the surface. It's my mask, my fault if I lose it.

If someone knocks it off purposely to try and prove a point, they're going to get it. If they refuse, they're going with me to get it, their ability to maintain a viable air source is of no consequence to me.

It's common courtesy, don't touch other people ****. Don't be surprised at the outcome if you do. The ONLY time I've ever been in a situation where the status quo changes is when a shop says, "if you're renting one of our masks, it goes around your neck." Their mask, their rules, and I've only been in that situation once, and happily complied. If a boat politely asks, I'm more than happy to oblige, but if someone gets douchey about it, I don't dive with them again.

I put mine on my forehead all the time. As you say, if I lose it, my fault.

Quite often with shore entries I need the visibility down at my feet to see the rocks while still in the water (mask has black skirt so absolutely no peripheral vision). Tripping at that point is a bigger hazard to me than my mask. Putting it round my neck makes it harder to angle my head down especially with the drysuit neck & hood already fairly tight around there. Taking it off and putting it on my wrist means it is a pain to re-don if needed.

Anyone throws my gear away they or their gear are following it. No if's buts or maybes.

If diving with rental gear, fair enough to stick to their rules or pay for the replacement.

I've never put my mask anywhere but on my face or my bag on the boat. I just can't think of a situation where I would be in the ocean and remove my mask with x number of feet of water below me... In the pool practicing skills I totally get it as there's little concern for losing your mask and it's easier to have a conversation without it on.

Nevertheless, MOF as a sign of distress... Maybe, odds are there are going to be better indicators. I imagine very few of us will ever see a diver truly in distress except maybe on YouTube, like this one for example... Look at where her mask ends up.


Do pool dives count for ?

If I see a diver waving their arms, shouting, looking like they are struggling to maintain buoyancy or a combo of them, I might think they are in distress. I certainly will not be looking at their mask.

The whole thing about being in distress or panicked is that you will more than likely do the unexpected - if we follow the logic of MOF as a sign of distress, she was fine!

 

[tomfcrist]

So you were a paying customer, not a part of his class....I would have told him to eat a ****. But I'm an a$$hole.

 

[Dan]

So you were a paying customer, not a part of his class....I would have told him to eat a ****. But I'm an a$$hole.

I prefer to vent out the air of my BCD, put my regulator back in my mouth & sit on the pool floor with MOF intact & see how the SOB instructor struggling to pull me out of the water.

 

[txgoose]

Our instructor was pretty cool with this one. He told us that it could be a sign of distress, but more importantly he just liked his students keeping their gear generally as safe as possible. More than once he would get a smirk on his face, look at me and ask, "Is the diver, OK?" After the second or third time I got it. He also usually followed it up with a discussion about losing gear, rather than distress. I took it as a good mix of reminding me to mind my gear, without getting all draconian about it and without perpetuating a storyline about distress.

The only "old school" storyline I thought he perpetuated was pointing the SPG front away from your face when pressurizing the system. No idea if that is an SSI requirement or just old habit.

My reaction probably would have best been tempered, as I assume yours was, because I was there with a buddy and wouldn't want to have wasted their time if I got kicked out. If I had been alone or near the end of what I was working on, the sarcasm factor would have escalated proportionately to how close to being done I was. If someone wants to embarrass me in front of their students, I would have zero issue embarrassing them in front of their students. It is simply a matter of tact and social skills. In his line of work, his livelihood could very well depend on that. If he wants to bring me into his training, I am okay if we both learn from each other in front of his students. Tact, the lost art.

 

[northernone]

Hilarious writeup, thanks for the thread! ...

Being less patient man in that situation may have resulted in a rescue needed!

I don't drink but a beer is on me!

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[stuartv]

My reaction probably would have best been tempered, as I assume yours was, because I was there with a buddy and wouldn't want to have wasted their time if I got kicked out.

I actually gave no thought to that at all. When I thought he was a rescue student, it would not have occurred to me that I could get thrown out. I just wanted to make absolutely sure that I acted in the most professional manner I could. After he identified himself as an instructor, I chose to behave the way I would want a customer to behave towards me if they were in my shop's pool and I identified myself as shop staff and asked them not to have their MOF.

I wanted to make sure that, in any follow-on discussion, anyone who looked into the situation would have no question that I behaved properly. Who "started it" would not have mattered, after the fact, if I engaged him by acting in an unprofessional way myself. At that point, we're both "wrong" and obviously the shop owner (who was there) is going to have to side with his guy and probably throw me out and invite me to never come back.

As it was, I asked to speak to the guy privately after we all got out of the pool. We cleared the air and he acknowledged that he didn't handle that the best way and he apologized. He walked away and then came back a minute or two later and asked me, "so, your shop doesn't teach not to put MOF?" I told him my shop does not. He seemed surprised. After that, before I left, I spoke to the shop owner and apologized to the shop owner for giving his guy a hard time. The shop owner laughed and said it's always good to give XYZ a hard time. I think I left on good terms with them. I hope I did, anyway. I learned something. Maybe the instructor guy learned something. No harm, no foul. Who knows? I might want to work for that shop someday. Better to try and build bridges than burn them.

 

[dmaziuk]

That was true when the casing was waxed cardboard. I haven't seen one of those in 50 years. Plastic just doesn't have that problem.

Sure it does. You just have to wait a wee bit longer.

It is kinda like the 5-sec rule when you drop something on the floor.

Enjoy: Scientists have proven the ‘five-second rule’ for food dropped on the floor

 

[boulderjohn]

I have a theory as to why IN PART the MOF foolishness got started and has had staying power.

In the old PADI OW curriculum, students were taught to recognize signs of panic. The gist of the explanation was that if they were to see an appropriate combination of signs, they should conclude that the diver was in a state of manic. Those signs include wide open eyes, splashing, riding high in the water while kicking, and equipment rejection. Equipment rejection could include throwing the regulator away and shoving the mask off. If the mask was shoved off, it might ride askew on the forehead.

The text did not state two things that should have been obvious:

1. There is an obvious and major difference between casually placing the mask on the forehead carefully and shoving it off in a blind and mindless panic.
2. In evaluating the combination of signs that indicate panic, you should be able to tell that in the case of a diver casually chatting with a friend with the mask off, the fact that he was casually chatting with a friend is enough of a sign that he is not in panic to override any concerns of the mask being on the forehead.

The real problem in that instruction, though, was on the final exam, which had a question about signs of panic. I don't recall the working precisely, but guess which sign was the correct answer on that multiple choice question. Consequently, thousands of instructors around the world who wanted their students to pass the final exam made sure they stressed during their reviews that a mask on the forehead was, by itself, a sign of distress.

So thousands of instructors around the world have told their students that if they put their mask on their forehead, someone was going to leap into action to rescue them. This instructor was obviously one of them. He had probably just told his students that. When he saw the OP, he therefore had no choice but to show them he was not lying. If his students had not been watching, I'm sure he would have ignored the situation.

 

[Wookie]

In the old PADI OW curriculum, students were taught to recognize signs of panic. The gist of the explanation was that if they were to see an appropriate combination of signs, they should conclude that the diver was in a state of manic. Those signs include wide open eyes, splashing, riding high in the water while kicking, and equipment rejection. Equipment rejection could include throwing the regulator away and shoving the mask off. If the mask was shoved off, it might ride askew on the forehead.

Which is why I said that a mask on the forehead can be a sign of a distressed diver.

I've probably seen more real panicked divers than anyone here, as I have 17 years carrying 1,000 divers a year for 5 dives a day. As with silent drowning, the signs of panic in a diver are subtle and not always a big splashing motion and cries of "pizza!! pizza!!" in water too deep to stand. The observant divemaster, after briefing that mask and regulator should stay in place until the diver is safely on the boat will want to know why the diver has a mask on forehead and regulator out, and is kicking furiously at the surface. Is the diver talking to his buddy? Is the diver on their back swimming to the ladder and blowing snot? Is the diver silent with great big eyes looking around wildly?

It is as wrong to train people to ignore a MOF as it is to train people to rescue someone with a MOF. A MOF can be a sign of distress in a diver, and warrants further inquiry.

 

[KDAD]

Nevertheless, MOF as a sign of distress... Maybe, odds are there are going to be better indicators. I imagine very few of us will ever see a diver truly in distress except maybe on YouTube, like this one for example... Look at where her mask ends up.

?

The panicking diver pulling her mask down around her neck thereby yanking the reg out of her mouth proves that when panicking you should place the mask on your forehead so at least you can keep the reg in your mouth.