Ice Diving

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Ice diving, as a popular recreational activity, predates technical diving (as a popular recreational activity).

In Minnesota it is popular because the viz is usually better than in summer, because it doesn't require a boat, because it allows a very precise drop onto a wreck or point of interest, and because it allows access to areas where boat traffic would make access unsafe during the summer.

Ice diving has its own safety protocol, using a line and a surface tender, and has not, historically, been a source of many accidents.
 
Ice diving, as a popular recreational activity, predates technical diving (as a popular recreational activity).

Cave diving predates the term "technical diving," too.
 
Thx for your opinions guys but think we can agree that it's an advanced speciality course/ cert.
 
Do you think Cavern should also be considered technical diving? If not, what is the difference?

Maybe there should be "Ice Diving" (which is tethered) that is "recreational/sport" and "Advanced Ice Diving" (i.e. untethered) that is "technical"?

I am very skeptical of cavern course. I like the way NAUI, GUE and UTD breakdown their overhead training. There are less courses to take and each course has more in it. Instead of Cavern + Intro + Apprentice, the GUE Cave 1 would be all three of these into Cave 1. To me that is more logical way of training divers and there is no distinction between technical and recreational here because in order to do Cave 1, you will have to clear Fundies which is their "Intro to Tech."
 
I don't want to derail this thread too much, but it seems to me that people who want to do single tank diving (with all the other limitations that come with a PADI Cavern cert) should be able to do so and can do so safely. Like for tethered ice diving.

So, offering a course that enables a sport diver to do those things without having to invest in all the trappings of a GUE tech diver seems very logical to me.

Of course, I'm speaking from a point of view of having done neither. So, my feeling that sport divers can safely do cavern (and ice) diving is somewhat anecdotal.
 
Well there is no such thing as a "single tank" ice course. Even PADI and SDI Ice diving course makes it mandatory to have a redundant air source. This does not need to be doubles and can also be an AL-40 bottle but each diver has to have a secondary tank on him. This is because under ice, the chance of a regulator free flow is pretty high. I had a sealed diaphragm regulator and it was free flowing without even going in the water.

I did my SDI course from ABNFrog (Steve) who is an extremely thorough instructor. He wanted me in doubles but I did not have any previous experience with doubles back then so Steve put me under ice with an AL-40 bottle. I may be going to Canada to go under ice with him again and I highly recommend his course. No going around a second air source though.
 
Thx for your opinions guys but think we can agree that it's an advanced speciality course/ cert.

I don't know about the PADI course, but SDI requires students have Advanced/AOW for ice class.
 
Well there is no such thing as a "single tank" ice course. Even PADI and SDI Ice diving course makes it mandatory to have a redundant air source. This does not need to be doubles and can also be an AL-40 bottle.

I would (personally) still call that a single tank dive. As opposed to diving with doubles. To me, doubles mean back mount, with a manifold, independent back mount, or sidemount. In all 3 configurations, it is intended to breathe from both tanks in normal circumstances. Carrying a pony is for emergencies only and not intended to be used normally - only if there is a problem, which would also prompt termination of the dive. That is one of the primary discriminators between sport and tech diving - the training to deal with issues without going to the surface. A free flow in doubles would mean shutting down a post, switching regs, giving it a few seconds to a minute, then turn that post back on to see if the reg has thawed and is working again. If so, you can continue the dive. I.e. it's a "fixable" failure that does not require (per training) to abort the dive. With only sport diving training, a free flow means the diver is over (per training - unless ice diving training expands your limits in that area).

To me, carrying a pony is an option for any sport dive and is not a technical diving configuration.

So, diving a single tank with a pony still would leave ice diving firmly in the realm of things that seem reasonable for a sport diver (i.e. not a tech diver) to do. It seems logical to me that sport diving certification agencies, like PADI and SDI, would offer a training course for that, rather than force anyone who wants to ice dive to buy doubles and take a 4 (or more) day course. I.e. it seems logical for their to exist a path for people to do the same thing you did.

It also seems reasonable (to me) that a sport diving Ice Diver cert would require limitations like what Cavern does - i.e. tethered, and no more than 200 linear feet from an exit. An Advanced Ice Diver technical cert would require a technical diving configuration (e.g. doubles, redundant computer or bottom timer, redundant buoyancy, etc.) and would allow untethered diving and further distance from the exit (something like Rule of Thirds, with doubles)

Like I said before - so it seems to me, having done neither Cavern nor Ice Diver.
 
The "experience" sold by recreational schools is not ice diving. It is a fairground ride. If anyone actually wants to dive under ice I suggest you read the following book:
9780878148431: Ice Diving Operations - AbeBooks - Walt Hendrick; Andrea Zaferes: 0878148434

It is a firefighter's point of view and will not sit well with the roped up two dives and a silly plastic card mob. I don't really have a good definition of "technical" or "recreational" diving to be honest so call it what you like. Harsh conditions and overhead environment are pretty extreme and no place for a AOW with 30 dives or so. The fairground ride money making "experience" ice diving "courses" get pretty shot to bits in the book. I have to agree with that.
 

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