Ops requiring AOW certs?

[boulderjohn]

John,
I usually agree with your posts, and I have given considerable thought to this issue over a long period of time, and I can't agree with you on several points.
1. Having an AOW cert does not certify a diver's ability, only that the diver passed a very easy course (from what a lot of divers have said on this board), and a course that can be completed immediately after OW training. I could get an AOW card without ever doing an ocean dive or leaving my local quarry or lake where a diver does not have to deal with the very different diving environments found in the ocean. I think we both would acknowledge that an AOW card says very little about a diver's actual diving ability or ability to handle situations when the crap hits the fan.
2. I do not have your diving experience, but I have never had a dive op clerk be the one that checks my card, logbook, or paperwork. It has always been the dive instructor that is running the dive that checks the divers' data, and I am pretty sure they can detect the posers without too much difficulty.
3. From discussions I have had with my brother, who is an attorney, I know that if an OW diver dies on an AOW dives, and the family elects to sue, possession of an AOW card is not going to be "case closed". Lawsuits are rarely that simple. An aggressive lawyer is going to question everything about the dive, and we know the dive op saying "Well, he had an AOW card, so we're OK right?" is not going to end the story.
4. I do expect a dive op to exercise good judgment both above and below the water, and that should involve more than just looking at a cert card to decide who they should take on a dive.

1. The AOW card says little about your ability, but it is something the shop can clearly site as some evidence of training? What does a logbook show that could not be created by a pen and a little bit of creative writing?

2. I have had many clerks evaluate my fitness for a dive by looking at my C-card. It does not take any kind of special training to see if the card matches the criteria, and it doesn't even take a lot of common sense. A couple of years ago I showed up for a dive trip at a shop I use frequently, and there was a clerk I didn't know taking the liability forms and money. I handed the liability form to her and told her I didn't owe anything because I had both a dive card and a gas filling card with the shop. She looked in their computer and saw that I was indeed prepaid for both. She saw that I was listed as an instructor. All I needed to do now was produce my certification card and I was good to go. What? Show my card? I didn't bring my card! Well, then, I couldn't dive. But I'm in the system! Sorry--no card, no dive. Fortunately, someone who knew me came in and told her to let me go.
3. If the question is whether or not the diver met the minimum requirements advertised for the dive, then it will be the end of THAT story.

 

[geoff w]

About two weeks ago I did my first dives in Florida for a TDI advanced wreck class. I've been certified since 1994 (PADI OW), and immediately took the PADI AOW class afterwards, before going on vacation to Tahiti. Since then I've dived a lot, in various places around the world, and become a PADI professional level diver (for what it's worth). Three day class in Florida, and I would definitely call the conditions advanced - big surface currents, have to hold on to the down line to get to the wreck, and for the recreational divers doing a second reef dive after the wrecks, free ascents with live boat pickups. My wife, with around 400 dives and a PADI master scuba diver, would have been miserable and freaking out. From what I heard, these are pretty typical conditions, although the seas are supposed to start calming down around this time of the year. Our first day of class diving was almost canceled because of the rough conditions

Having a plastic c-card that says AOW really wouldn't make a difference compared to experience in similar conditions. But for a relatively new diver, at least the dive operator would have an out in terms of liability by requiring a minimum of AOW certifications

I have a new found respect for south Florida divers based on my limited experience there, especially since coming from southern California where we'll dive in most conditions. And yes, I do want to go back to south Florida and dive some more

 

[TMHeimer]

John, Amazing. That's the first I've ever heard of someone looking you up and still requiring a card. And no form of picture ID would do as well? I'll be in a tent in NY for 7 weeks and figured not to bring my card--just one more thing that could be stolen. I know everyone at the NY shop, but maybe should re-think bringing at least one card.....Oh wait, I have all those extra specialty cards PADI sent me years ago since I really did think the ones due me were lost in the mail coming to Canada.

 

[dberry]

I keep scans (photos) of all my cards on my phone. I may or may not have paper copies with me at any given time. My paper copies are just from my printer and "laminated" with clear packing tape. Has anyone had trouble showing e-cards or copies?

 

[Marie13]

I guess it would depend on where you're diving. Some places actually retain diver cert cards until you're done diving. An e-card wouldn't work in that case (I've asked). It's a small quarry near me.

 

[Kevo88]

I guess it would depend on where you're diving. Some places actually retain diver cert cards until you're done diving. An e-card wouldn't work in that case (I've asked). It's a small quarry near me.

Which quarry is that at? I've been using my PADI e card the last few weekends with no problems. It has my diver number and my instructor's padi info, so it's all verifiable if need be.

 

[Marie13]

Three Oaks in Crystal Lake. You also have to tow a dive flag, which I consider a PITA. There also isn't much to see there yet underwater. I've not gone yet, as I've not seen the point.

 

[Kevo88]

Three Oaks in Crystal Lake. You also have to drag a dive flag, which I consider a PITA. There also isn't much to see there yet underwater.

Thanks for the heads up! I'll have to keep that in mind if I'm up diving that way.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @TrimixToo

Sorry, I think we were talking about two different things. I'm sure my LA County certification from 1970 and your YMCA certification from 1972 were both quite rigorous compared to today's entry level standards (see my post, #50). I was talking about activities actually executed during the certification process and you were talking about information you were exposed to in the didactic portion of the class.

We were also taught USN tables, including decompression. We did not execute planned decompression dives during certification, I doubt you did either. I no longer remember specifically all I was exposed to in the classroom, but do recall it was much broader than what we actually did. I would be extremely surprised if you dived heliox or dived to 300 feet on air during your training.

My LA County card was never challenged in the 10 years I used it. After a 17 year hiatus, I was recertified with my 12 year old son through PADI. Occasionally, just for fun, I have shown my LA County card along with my 2002 PADI nitrox card. It has not been turned down, but, I have often been asked when my last dive was and/or have supplied a short history of the LA County certification. Of course, I've always had, and generally, later shown, my more contemporary certification. LA County no longer offers basic scuba, though they do offer a tremendous advanced course. And, of course, the YMCA gave up scuba in 2008.

Very best and good diving, Craig

 

[Doby45]

Hi @TrimixToo

Sorry, I think we were talking about two different things. I'm sure my LA County certification from 1970 and your YMCA certification from 1972 were both quite rigorous compared to today's entry level standards (see my post, #50). I was talking about activities actually executed during the certification process and you were talking about information you were exposed to in the didactic portion of the class.

We were also taught USN tables, including decompression. We did not execute planned decompression dives during certification, I doubt you did either. I no longer remember specifically all I was exposed to in the classroom, but do recall it was much broader than what we actually did. I would be extremely surprised if you dived heliox or dived to 300 feet on air during your training.

My LA County card was never challenged in the 10 years I used it. After a 17 year hiatus, I was recertified with my 12 year old son through PADI. Occasionally, just for fun, I have shown my LA County card along with my 2002 PADI nitrox card. It has not been turned down, but, I have often been asked when my last dive was and/or have supplied a short history of the LA County certification. Of course, I've always had, and generally, later shown, my more contemporary certification. LA County no longer offers basic scuba, though they do offer a tremendous advanced course. And, of course, the YMCA gave up scuba in 2008.

Very best and good diving, Craig
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