Question for PADI Divemasters and Instructors

[tbeck3579]

Wetb4 I just visited DiveGUE and I am very impressed. Thank you very much for the excellent lead. If a dive instructor wants to get my attention they should advertise a CV like this one. Very impressive. I used the link in his resume to visit his web page and his prices for PADI instruction are NOT that high! In fact he is competitive with the dive shop. I wonder why more dive shop owners, and instructors don't use their experience as a draw.

I'm guessing he wouldn't think I was "over thinking" this or would he question my concerns. DiveGUE is an excellent resource for those of us who want to do more than "street race". Those of us who want to enjoy diving and all it has to offer know we don't know what we need to know. Thanks again!

 

[MikeT73]

I didn't go GUE in my tech route but I have never met a bad diver from that program. There are also plenty of great divers that did not go that route. I assume you're not going to do the dive shop cattle class and are looking for a one on one or small class. If you are going to "overthink" (and that's ok!), you might want to interview the instructor first. Even a phone call will work. Ask about their teaching style, etc. Just because they have an impressive resume does not mean your personalities will click (and that's ok too). It really helps to have both of those in line and you will enjoy and probably get more out of your class. Best of luck!

 

[pinshootr]

if money for gear is not an issue maybe you should consider just getting trained from the start in side mount!!!!

 

[pinshootr]

 

[Diver0001]

Are PADI instructors required to do that?

Formally, yes. However PADI has over 100,000 instructors world wide, IIRC.

We are in a transition period right now. There are a truly VAST number of instructors who are either unwilling or unable to make the change. Many have not even been exposed to the idea yet because the don't read (contrary to standards) the training journals and they are not active online.

Some.... many, perhaps... would LIKE to make the change but lack the support necessary to learn how to teach the OW course in a neutral manner. This is by far the biggest group. Among my close colleagues I am the only one who has really let go of his addiction to the bottom (and have for a number of years). The instructors around me who see me in the pool every week range from "interested" to "trying some stuff" to "wanting to gain buy-in" to thinking I'm a heretic. For example one even sent me an email this week when I asked the group for an opinion about something I wanted to try that I shouldn't start, "moaning" about this again......

Change is hard and even good instructors, when being shown on a weekly basis by someone (me) willing to teach them how to make a paradigm shift, most are still hanging back and waiting for their vindication if/when I make a mistake. Meanwhile the results in my OW course are utterly spectacular but even that isn't enough to convince them all. Just imagine how it must be for the 90% of instructors who don't even care.

It's incredibly hard to get a large group to buy in to a paradigm change if they don't first experience a cognitive dissonance. As long as instructors continue to get "reasonably good" results (or even BAD results that they are happy with) using inefficient training methods, they will not feel inclined to change.

Strangely, it's the most experienced instructors who find making a paradigm shift most difficult. Recently I was working with a freshly minted DM (a 19 year old woman) who took to the idea immediately and by the end of the course said that when she becomes an instructor this is the method she wants to use.... and this is the rub. There are maybe 90,000 instructors out there who don't get it and with a little luck maybe 10,000 upcoming DM's who have seen this method......

I'm still hoping for a paradigm shift. I'm hoping for a moment in time when every instructor (like i happens so often in science) says, "OH SNAP".

Finally, I should point out that the movement to make this transition started right here on Scubaboard. A small number of instructors, lead by @boulderjohn were able to convince PADI that (a) it was possible and (b) it was necessary. As a result the standards were tightened up and the course improved.

Now it's on our shoulders to make it happen for real.... and I'm finding it..... hard.

R..

 

[tbeck3579]

Formally, yes. However PADI has over 100,000 instructors world wide, IIRC.

We are in a transition period right now. There are a truly VAST number of instructors who are either unwilling or unable to make the change. Many have not even been exposed to the idea yet because the don't read (contrary to standards) the training journals and they are not active online.

Some.... many, perhaps... would LIKE to make the change but lack the support necessary to learn how to teach the OW course in a neutral manner. This is by far the biggest group. Among my close colleagues I am the only one who has really let go of his addiction to the bottom (and have for a number of years). The instructors around me who see me in the pool every week range from "interested" to "trying some stuff" to "wanting to gain buy-in" to thinking I'm a heretic. For example one even sent me an email this week when I asked the group for an opinion about something I wanted to try that I shouldn't start, "moaning" about this again......

Change is hard and even good instructors, when being shown on a weekly basis by someone (me) willing to teach them how to make a paradigm shift, most are still hanging back and waiting for their vindication if/when I make a mistake. Meanwhile the results in my OW course are utterly spectacular but even that isn't enough to convince them all. Just imagine how it must be for the 90% of instructors who don't even care.

It's incredibly hard to get a large group to buy in to a paradigm change if they don't first experience a cognitive dissonance. As long as instructors continue to get "reasonably good" results (or even BAD results that they are happy with) using inefficient training methods, they will not feel inclined to change.

Strangely, it's the most experienced instructors who find making a paradigm shift most difficult. Recently I was working with a freshly minted DM (a 19 year old woman) who took to the idea immediately and by the end of the course said that when she becomes an instructor this is the method she wants to use.... and this is the rub. There are maybe 90,000 instructors out there who don't get it and with a little luck maybe 10,000 upcoming DM's who have seen this method......

I'm still hoping for a paradigm shift. I'm hoping for a moment in time when every instructor (like i happens so often in science) says, "OH SNAP".

Finally, I should point out that the movement to make this transition started right here on Scubaboard. A small number of instructors, lead by @boulderjohn were able to convince PADI that (a) it was possible and (b) it was necessary. As a result the standards were tightened up and the course improved.

Now it's on our shoulders to make it happen for real.... and I'm finding it..... hard.

R..

My initial thoughts on the matter -- having made huge changes and dealing with the fall-out from HOURLY employees: Simply certifying the "willing" instructors and educating the public about the "advanced buoyancy" certification some instructors have will make it happen and you won't need to do anything. Money is a great motivator. It is the public who benefits; make them aware and everything else will fall into place. I have no idea how many people get trained annually, but the people will vote with their $$$$. I did and I had to move heaven and earth to find out how.

 

[boulderjohn]

It's incredibly hard to get a large group to buy in to a paradigm change if they don't first experience a cognitive dissonance. As long as instructors continue to get "reasonably good" results (or even BAD results that they are happy with) using inefficient training methods, they will not feel inclined to change.

In the thread on your topic in the Instructor to Instructor forum, I mentioned that when I adopted innovative instructional methods in the classroom, I had phenomenal success, and I was later tasked with teaching those methods throughout the district. Let me give some examples from my Advanced Placement classes to underscore your point about resistance to change.

• I accepted anyone into my AP class who wanted to be in it, with no screening requirements. All the other AP teachers screened so that they only took the very best students.
• In every year that I taught after adopting those methods, I had more students pass the AP exam than all the other teachers in all the other subjects combined. It was not even close.
• One year I had more students get the highest score (5) than all the other AP teachers combined had students pass the exam (score 3 or higher).
• In our school, students could opt not to take the exam. The exam cost them money, and the score would be reported to the colleges to which they had applied. If their exam preparation gave them the impression that they would do badly, it was a good idea to decline to take the exam. I almost never had a student decline to take the exam. One year I had more students pass the exam than all the other AP teachers combined had students TAKE the exam.
• I was teaching in a school with poor socio-economic statistics, meaning we had a lot of students with poor academic records. The scores of my students were among the highest in the region, consistent with or better than the top performing, high SES schools.
• All of these statistics were given to all AP teachers, so all the AP teachers in my school knew those statistics.
• The school district made a video in which I discussed my teaching methodologies and showing students at work. This video was shown throughout the district.

Every year that I taught, all the AP teachers in the school denounced my teaching methodology, saying that I was harming students. The only good way to teach subject matter to such students was they way they were doing it. Most AP students take more than one AP class, and my students regularly told me that their other AP teachers told the entire class that I was a bad teacher whose methodologies were making it hard for them to succeed. When we discussed teaching methods in faculty meetings, my approach was regularly condemned by these teachers as subverting educational quality. The AP teacher who denounced me most aggressively never had a single student take the exam. Not a single AP teacher adopted my methodologies.

BTW, I had similar experiences with my other classes as well.

Lesson: if you are seen as someone bringing change, your successes will be both downplayed and denied. People will not only refuse to change, they will work against you and try to hurt you as they resist.

 

[Diver0001]

My initial thoughts on the matter -- having made huge changes and dealing with the fall-out from HOURLY employees: Simply certifying the "willing" instructors and educating the public about the "advanced buoyancy" certification some instructors have will make it happen and you won't need to do anything. Money is a great motivator. It is the public who benefits; make them aware and everything else will fall into place. I have no idea how many people get trained annually, but the people will vote with their $$$$. I did and I had to move heaven and earth to find out how.

Oh yes, people DO vote with their money, and THAT is the problem.

They sign up for the cheapest course they can find (after all the card is the same) and at this point with a 9 out of 10 chance (or better) that they will be offered (and accept) a course that turns them into the type of diver we complain about.

For *exactly* the same price they could take OW with me (in my local area) but even THAT isn't good enough. Certification in a weekend is still more attractive.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

In the thread on your topic in the Instructor to Instructor forum, I mentioned that when I adopted innovative instructional methods in the classroom, I had phenomenal success, and I was later tasked with teaching those methods throughout the district. Let me give some examples from my Advanced Placement classes to underscore your point about resistance to change.

• I accepted anyone into my AP class who wanted to be in it, with no screening requirements. All the other AP teachers screened so that they only took the very best students.
• In every year that I taught after adopting those methods, I had more students pass the AP exam than all the other teachers in all the other subjects combined. It was not even close.
• One year I had more students get the highest score (5) than all the other AP teachers combined had students pass the exam (score 3 or higher).
• In our school, students could opt not to take the exam. The exam cost them money, and the score would be reported to the colleges to which they had applied. If their exam preparation gave them the impression that they would do badly, it was a good idea to decline to take the exam. I almost never had a student decline to take the exam. One year I had more students pass the exam than all the other AP teachers combined had students TAKE the exam.
• I was teaching in a school with poor socio-economic statistics, meaning we had a lot of students with poor academic records. The scores of my students were among the highest in the region, consistent with or better than the top performing, high SES schools.
• All of these statistics were given to all AP teachers, so all the AP teachers in my school knew those statistics.
• The school district made a video in which I discussed my teaching methodologies and showing students at work. This video was shown throughout the district.

Every year that I taught, all the AP teachers in the school denounced my teaching methodology, saying that I was harming students. The only good way to teach subject matter to such students was they way they were doing it. Most AP students take more than one AP class, and my students regularly told me that their other AP teachers told the entire class that I was a bad teacher whose methodologies were making it hard for them to succeed. When we discussed teaching methods in faculty meetings, my approach was regularly condemned by these teachers as subverting educational quality. The AP teacher who denounced me most aggressively never had a single student take the exam. Not a single AP teacher adopted my methodologies.

BTW, I had similar experiences with my other classes as well.

Lesson: if you are seen as someone bringing change, your successes will be both downplayed and denied. People will not only refuse to change, they will work against you and try to hurt you as they resist.

I'm only taking the first steps in this process but I'm seeing the same things happening.....

Interestingly I'm seeing some colleagues say "I was already doing that" even though they clearly were not. I'm hoping that this means, "I want to learn".

R..

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Wetb4 I just visited DiveGUE and I am very impressed. Thank you very much for the excellent lead. If a dive instructor wants to get my attention they should advertise a CV like this one. Very impressive. I used the link in his resume to visit his web page and his prices for PADI instruction are NOT that high! In fact he is competitive with the dive shop. I wonder why more dive shop owners, and instructors don't use their experience as a draw.

I'm guessing he wouldn't think I was "over thinking" this or would he question my concerns. DiveGUE is an excellent resource for those of us who want to do more than "street race". Those of us who want to enjoy diving and all it has to offer know we don't know what we need to know. Thanks again!

There are few instructors with such a CV. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 100 worldwide. That said, you are lucky to have one close to you. I don't think you can go wrong with a GUE/UTD/ISE tech instructor that also teaches PADI rec. My goal is to become one of those. I've taken GUE fundamentals, and it has influenced me heavily on how I teach open water and also the material I hope to "publish" on dive planning, something that I think is typically not covered well in all open water courses that I've seen (that has to be optional for certification, but I'll highly recommend to my students).