Snorkeling death

[Scuba J7]

I've tried the Ocean Reef snorkel mask and thought that it worked well. Inhalations obviously come down the snorkel tube and across the front of the mask keeping it clear of fog. Exhalations are directed out the bottom of the mask right in front and below the mouth, also expelling any water. With a proper fit I don't see a problem with CO2 buildup. Again this is with an Ocean Reef mask, I have seen a few of the knock-offs and they look very similar to the OR mask but I didn't try them on.

Edit: I did find 1 of two bad reviews in the linked article funny. Not sure if it's supposed to be a joke...or if it's the times we live in now!
“Snorkel works fine until you go under water, then it’s as though the valve at the top gets jammed and it’s like breathing through a straw,” E.G. Bradlee said in his July 27 review.

 

[dmaziuk]

Anyone have any opinions or insights?

I'm sure the poor guy wants answers and all that, but I seriously doubt there's anything to any of it. I expect you get the same problems you'd get with a diving FFM plus the snorkel would take some getting used to, but deadly CO2 build-up? C'mon.

 

[doctormike]

Well, I don't know about that. If not designed well, you could definitely get CO2 buildup. Not necessarily deadly like a CCR scrubber failure, but potentially enough to cause symptoms that could be contributory to arrhythmias, panic, or stress, maybe in an older snorkeler with underlying medical problems. If you don't design separate intake and exhaust pathways, the problem would be worse. I can't do the math in my head, but there must be some formula involving dead space volume in the mask, the dead space volume in the upper airway, and the tidal volume.

 

[Scuba J7]

In the Ocean Reef mask, the exhaust dead space is about equal to a non-rebreather o2 mask.

Well, I don't know about that. If not designed well, you could definitely get CO2 buildup. Not necessarily deadly like a CCR scrubber failure, but potentially enough to cause symptoms that could be contributory to arrhythmias, panic, or stress, maybe in an older snorkeler with underlying medical problems. If you don't design separate intake and exhaust pathways, the problem would be worse. I can't do the math in my head, but there must be some formula involving dead space volume in the mask, the dead space volume in the upper airway, and the tidal volume.

 

[dmaziuk]

Somewhere @lowviz posted a video of CO2 retention changing with body position, too... I'm sure it's not impossible and one could get a CO2 hit. Personally I hate valves on dry snorkels, I feel suffocated even when they don't get stuck -- and if it does, removing an FFM is of course not as easy as spitting out the mouthpiece. I'd worry about that way before I worry about CO2.

 

[John the Pom]

I can think of a number of potential issues with this type of equipment.

Firstly, the advertising is aimed at people who find a regular mask and snorkel too difficult. If someone is so uncomfortable in the water that can't master the few basic skills needed to use a mask and snorkel, how will they cope if they have an accidental flood in this full-face mask, and safety isn't close at hand?

Secondly, when I learned to snorkel, many (many!) years ago, we were cautioned against similar items that were on the market then, because of the difficulties and dangers of the additional dead air space. Reading one popular manufacturer's FAQ, it sounds as though this equipment has similar problems. This section, quoted from the FAQ, worries me a lot:

WHY CAN'T YOU USE THE EASYBREATH® FOR SWIMMING TRAINING?

Swimming requires a lot more effort than snorkelling, just as running requires a lot more effort than walking. Swimming training needs a significant amount of oxygen and your body will automatically switch to intensive mouth breathing. At this point, breathing with the Easybreath® would become very uncomfortable.

Now I don't know, but this sounds like CO2 build-up to me, which is potentially very dangerous if someone starts to exert themselves (because of current, or wind and waves, or just general fitness), and feels like they can't breathe. It can easily cause a person to panic.

Finally, they are no fun because it is all but impossible to dive underwater in this type of mask. When I took my kids snorkelling, that's all they wanted to do!

Maybe it is okay for a certain type of resort tourist, in very easy conditions, and used with a flotation device. Two different people at two different spots have told me how great these things are, but to me they are a big worry.

 

[doctormike]

I can think of a number of potential issues with this type of equipment.

Firstly, the advertising is aimed at people who find a regular mask and snorkel too difficult. If someone is so uncomfortable in the water that can't master the few basic skills needed to use a mask and snorkel, how will they cope if they have an accidental flood in this full-face mask, and safety isn't close at hand?

Secondly, when I learned to snorkel, many (many!) years ago, we were cautioned against similar items that were on the market then, because of the difficulties and dangers of the additional dead air space. Reading one popular manufacturer's FAQ, it sounds as though this equipment has similar problems. This section, quoted from the FAQ, worries me a lot:
.

Well, if their innovation is to separate inhalation and exhalation pathways, that would deal with the dead space issue. That is, every breath you take in is fresh gas, unlike the older models that you are describing.

It's not that they can't master the mask and snorkel, it's that a lot of people don't like the sensation of having the nose closed and breathing through a mouthpiece. We tend to forget that because it's such second nature to us, but if this works I can see it really being a nicer way to look at the underwater world than with a conventional mask and snorkel for them. If it floods, I guess they will just sit up in the water and take it off - it's not for people who can't swim, just for people who don't like snorkeling gear. And the people who do vacation snorkeling as adults are almost never diving under the water. This isn't for free divers...

 

[dmaziuk]

WHY CAN'T YOU USE THE EASYBREATH® FOR SWIMMING TRAINING?

For the same reason you can't use any "dry" snorkel: the bore is not large enough. Also because you're going to rip it off pushing off the wall. There is a reason we use low-profile goggles and large-bore snorkels.

And no, they are not talking CO2 build-up. They're talking restricted airflow. Like training at altitude or what freedivers use: Lung Expander -- that can actually be a good thing when training for competition, but don't do it at home.

 

[Charles2]

My grandson, who has just turned 10, he loves the water and has wanted to enjoy the water just like his aunts, uncles, and cousins. He was born with a bi-lateral cleft lip & palate. The lip has been repaired, but the palate repair has not been scheduled yet. As you might imagine, he cannot isolate his breathing to his mouth only and as a result, he can neither scuba nor snorkel. I have looked at these masks for a while now and am considering getting him one just to see if he can use this to join his cousins on snorkel adventures. I hope it works.

 

[chillyinCanada]

My understanding from reading elsewhere, is that this might be an issue with the particular brand of mask the victim was using. While it's unfortunate the actual mask was lost, the husband's is going to be used for attempted analysis.

Further, this accident has brought some operators to train and/or reinforce staff training with regard to gear retention/handling at time of accident/recovery.