Solo dive on the U853 WWII German Submarine

[CT-Rich]

How we treat the enemy is not a reflection on the enemies humanity, it is a reflection of our's.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wa...0-years-later-and-become-fishing-buddies.html

 

[ozzydamo]

IMO they should have thought of all that before they started the war. The time to be concerned about your people is before war.

All it would have taken was one German bullet or shell and I wouldn't be here today because my father would never have been my father because he would have been killed. Don't think I don't think of that when I think of WWII. The Japanese caused us to send our men to the South Pacific if not for them our guys would have stayed home. There's no tears in this family for any German or Japanese combatants from WWII.

---------- Post added July 30th, 2015 at 09:09 AM ----------




I got my info from the IRS in the back of a 1040 tax book. There were 2 pie charts one intake the other output.

The GDP is much smaller than the budget the info you have was presented in such a manner as to bias the perception. Figures lie and lairs figure. That's not directed at you but the authors of your info.

Since 1965 we have spent over 26 trillion dollars on the Great Society / War on poverty, more than the amount spent on all the wars we have been in since 1776. We were at 14% poverty then and we still are now. Money well spent? Or money down a well?

"If you're not careful, the newspapers(media) will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing"

Watch this if you have some spare time -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKy6_yy3C3U
https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_pi...the_twenty_first_century?language=en#t-140232

---------- Post added July 31st, 2015 at 09:30 PM ----------

How we treat the enemy is not a reflection on the enemies humanity, it is a reflection of our's.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wa...0-years-later-and-become-fishing-buddies.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

Soldier charged in abuse - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News

 

[CT-Rich]

"If you're not careful, the newspapers(media) will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing"

Watch this if you have some spare time -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKy6_yy3C3U
https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_pi...the_twenty_first_century?language=en#t-140232

---------- Post added July 31st, 2015 at 09:30 PM ----------



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

Soldier charged in abuse - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News

I am not going to extrapolate this into other conflicts or current military conflicts. I am strictly talking about what we as divers should be doing when diving on known graves. What happened in that video was a tragedy, the pilots involved have to live with the consequences of their actions. As do the sailors that depth charged U-853. Plenty of soldiers regret what they did during the heat of battle. It is easy to play arm chair quarterback. Like I said earlier, the politics of the dead are moot, it is how we behave as individuals that matter.

Personally I would rather have the German gov't repatriate the bodies than leave the relocation of the bones to tourists who arbitrarily decide what the right thing to do is. To me, leaving the dead at peace in their tomb is appropriate. The sea shall reclaim them over time as the wreck deteriorates breaks up. My un-educated guess is that the Germans won't try to repatriate the bodies because they are unlikely to find and identify all of the remains, which would mean that the wreck would still remain a war grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0TpsfxGDdo

 

[AfterDark]

"If you're not careful, the newspapers(media) will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing"

Watch this if you have some spare time -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKy6_yy3C3U
https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_pi...the_twenty_first_century?language=en#t-140232

---------- Post added July 31st, 2015 at 09:30 PM ----------



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

Soldier charged in abuse - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News

Don't leave out the media I especially hate them!

 

[ozzydamo]

I am not going to extrapolate this into other conflicts or current military conflicts. I am strictly talking about what we as divers should be doing when diving on known graves. What happened in that video was a tragedy, the pilots involved have to live with the consequences of their actions. As do the sailors that depth charged U-853. Plenty of soldiers regret what they did during the heat of battle. It is easy to play arm chair quarterback. Like I said earlier, the politics of the dead are moot, it is how we behave as individuals that matter.

Personally I would rather have the German gov't repatriate the bodies than leave the relocation of the bones to tourists who arbitrarily decide what the right thing to do is. To me, leaving the dead at peace in their tomb is appropriate. The sea shall reclaim them over time as the wreck deteriorates breaks up. My un-educated guess is that the Germans won't try to repatriate the bodies because they are unlikely to find and identify all of the remains, which would mean that the wreck would still remain a war grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0TpsfxGDdo

You cannot hurt the dead!
There is no honour in War only death, waste and misery.

So why waste taxpayers money on bones?

Doesn't the German government have a responsibility to use its citizens money for the betterment of the living, not the political grandstanding that is associated with war ceremonials. It is time Politician's started to show some productive measure for the money they waste- time to stop "warring" things and letting the money get thru to the qualified to attend to the issues.

A teaspoon of sugar works better then vinegar to make the medicine go down!

"Don't leave out the media I especially hate them! "

The propaganda wing of the Banksters.

Pretty much mirrors what the Nazi's had all those years ago- you write what they want or there is no pay check or audience to even read it- no future for you!

They now prepare the police to deal with the "dissidentry".
How the US police in Ferguson became a militarised unit equipped for war

 

[baron-von-e]

I am a German immigrant, US citizen since 1967, diving since the 50's, and the son of a WWII German naval officer. My take: respect all war graves. Leaving the history lessons and politics for some other forum, let me just submit to you that some of the comments I read here about who would do what, or think whatever, in 1945 Germany are based on clichés from TV and movies. I'm sure you're all familiar with the movie Das Boot. Try to find the long version. If you are able to play "Region B" Blu-rays you can even get the unedited 5-hr version from Germany. That movie does a pretty good job depicting the mix of personalities and political leanings of several dozen random young men crammed into a giant cigar tube.

What I haven't read anyone pick up on here is the wisdom of penetrating a collapsing wreck solo. I get the solo diver thing. I can assure you I was blowing bubbles alone long before most of your parents were born. But squeezing through restrictions in an unstable overhead environment 120+' down (on air no less?), with no safety diver outside... no offense but are you nuts, Fiddler?

This is the sort of thing only two kinds of divers do: the inexperienced, and the lucky. I don't care how many dives you've logged. If you don't have more respect for the depths than what your dive report on the U-853 indicates you are still inexperienced, AND very lucky. I wish you well.

 

[Russoft]

I am a German immigrant, US citizen since 1967, diving since the 50's, and the son of a WWII German naval officer. My take: respect all war graves. Leaving the history lessons and politics for some other forum, let me just submit to you that some of the comments I read here about who would do what, or think whatever, in 1945 Germany are based on clichés from TV and movies. I'm sure you're all familiar with the movie Das Boot. Try to find the long version. If you are able to play "Region B" Blu-rays you can even get the unedited 5-hr version from Germany. That movie does a pretty good job depicting the mix of personalities and political leanings of several dozen random young men crammed into a giant cigar tube.

What I haven't read anyone pick up on here is the wisdom of penetrating a collapsing wreck solo. I get the solo diver thing. I can assure you I was blowing bubbles alone long before most of your parents were born. But squeezing through restrictions in an unstable overhead environment 120+' down (on air no less?), with no safety diver outside... no offense but are you nuts, Fiddler?

This is the sort of thing only two kinds of divers do: the inexperienced, and the lucky. I don't care how many dives you've logged. If you don't have more respect for the depths than what your dive report on the U-853 indicates you are still inexperienced, AND very lucky. I wish you well.

The big yellow banner above this thread reads, in part, "You have entered the Solo Divers forum... If you are opposed to solo diving, this is not the place for you..."

And yes, Das Boot is a fantastic movie. Being a bit of a submarine nerd, I look forward to diving a u-boat wreck some day.

 

[baron-von-e]

Did I say I was opposed to solo diving? Did you see the words "I can assure you I was blowing bubbles alone long before most of your parents were born..." May I respectfully suggest you comment on the point I actually made.

By the way, I highly recommend this fascinating book for anyone interested in diving U-Boats

Shadow Divers: The True Adventure of Two Americans Who Risked Everything to Solve One of the Last Mysteries of World War II: Robert Kurson: 9780345482471: Amazon.com: Books

It has become somewhat controversial regarding fact vs fiction, so another book came out that is equally interesting

Amazon.com: Shadow Divers Exposed: The Real Saga of the U-869 (9781883056247): Gary Gentile: Books

 

[Dr. Lecter]

We all remember the victory rather than defeat.
You won't see the French celebrate in Waterloo.

I wonder how many American tourists are flashing victory signs in Nagasaki or Hiroshima...my guess is that the natives would find it tasteless.

---------- Post added August 4th, 2015 at 02:41 PM ----------

What I haven't read anyone pick up on here is the wisdom of penetrating a collapsing wreck solo. I get the solo diver thing. I can assure you I was blowing bubbles alone long before most of your parents were born. But squeezing through restrictions in an unstable overhead environment 120+' down (on air no less?), with no safety diver outside... no offense but are you nuts, Fiddler?

This is the sort of thing only two kinds of divers do: the inexperienced, and the lucky. I don't care how many dives you've logged. If you don't have more respect for the depths than what your dive report on the U-853 indicates you are still inexperienced, AND very lucky. I wish you well.

You play in your bubble, and we'll play in ours.

 

[FiddlerOnTheRoof]

Baron... I have over 2500 dives logged 99% of them signed and confirmed. I am Nitrox, Trimix, Heliox and CCR certified and a certified instructor. I have been diving since 1989 and have done many solo dives to even deeper places. I also have been on many dives and exploration/research trips like the Doria (4X), the Coimbra (3X) The U-Who (U-869) (2x) and a few others.


I believe I am experienced... YES I am NUTS :bonk: and yes it is also good to have LADY LUCK on your side but then again so are most tec divers and most people who go the extra step to go beyond just a little more... Here is a list of crazy NUT people for you:

Neil Armstrong
Vasco Da Gama
Marco Polo
Columbus
Lewis and Clark
Jacques Cousteau

Here are some wonderful, SOLO, NUTS for you:

Reinhold Messner (1944)
Famous For: His SOLO climb of Mount Everest and all fourteen eight-thousanders
Explorers come in all forms, Reinhold Messner is one for the ages. He successfully climbed Mount Everest in 1978 with no oxygen to supplement his climb. He is also the first man to climb fourteen mountains that are at least 8,000 meters (26,247 feet) high. The lowest mountain he climbed was Gasherbrum II at the China-Pakistan Karakoram range, its height, 8,034 meters (26,358 feet).

Yuri Gagarin (1934-1968)
Famous For: First man to go into outer space SOLO
Gagarin, a cosmonaut under the Soviet Union has the distinction of being the first man to travel into outer space. He orbited the earth on his Vostok spacecraft in April 1961.

And some more here: Going Solo: Adventure Explorer Paul Everitt


I will be diving the U-Who (U-869) - 240fsw (73 meters) this coming September. It's a wonderful German wreck that you might like! Care to join?

Now go do some solo diving, I think you will enjoy it...

Warm regards,