Non professional divers taking very young children diving (even in a pool)

[RJP]

I have been looking and cannot find a single case of this happening. So that proves is not that dangerous.

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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Regardless of anyone's position on putting kids on scuba in a home pool, the above post is possibly one of the most absurd conclusions I've ever seen anyone ever come to. About anything. Not just ScubaBoard, but anywhere on the internet. I hope you simply forgot to add the "sarcasm" smilie-face.

 

[Storker]

Liveaboards don't do 2 tank trips. IJS.

I didn't know you operated a liveaboard, so there's that. I'm used to day boats.

But you have more than one dive per day, yes? And my clubmate's 232 bar D12 holds almost exactly the same amount of gas as two of my 300 bar 10s. We both have - and have to fill -some 5400L/190 CuF after two one-hour NDL dives. I struggle to see the fundamental difference. Particularly if another of my clubmates is allowed aboard with two 232 bar 12L singles and a BP/W rig with an STA, while the guy with the D12 set isn't allowed aboard. I can only see some reason for the policy if you are so cramped on space that you only bring a single tank per diver and scramble to fill those tanks between every dive. But, as I said, I don't know your op. I just want to understand.

 

[nimoh]

Everyone can decide for themselves what to allow on their own property and how to raise their children and grandchildren, but I think the OP did the right thing from their perspective of avoiding risk. If something doesn't fit the mold of how diving in the area is normally conducted, then it seems reasonable that a shop might avoid getting involved.

As for what to do with one's own children or grandchildren, we can all draw the line in different places. Is a kid on scuba in the shallow end of the pool more likely or less likely to get hurt than kids who in days of yore engaged in rock fights, rode bikes without helmets, didn't wear seatbelts in the car, etc.? Some of these things we did when we were kids are clearly no longer acceptable, but others remain in the discretion of parents. I'm personally not comfortable with the idea of a person who not only doesn't have much current dive experience himself but also doesn't have experience teaching children scuba taking them for a "discover scuba" dive in the pool, but my opinion has no bearing on what others are comfortable with.

Although I am being argumentative, this is simply not true, at least in the USA anyway. Taken to an extreme, one cannot cook meth on their own property, and parents are not allowed to burn their kids with a cigarette for forgetting to take out the trash.

However, teaching them to scuba dive in the family pool is obviously not an extreme, and probably not even the most dangerous thing the kid will ever experience.

 

[Seya]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Regardless of anyone's position on putting kids on scuba in a home pool, the above post is possibly one of the most absurd conclusions I've ever seen anyone ever come to. About anything. Not just ScubaBoard, but anywhere on the internet. I hope you simply forgot to add the "sarcasm" smilie-face.

No fear mongering and being an Internet diver might make people belive it's a very dangerous activity. Which it isn't. A great deal of people do the activity and I can't find a single documented case of someone dieing or being injured. There is many people drowning swimming in their family pools. That's what you should be advocating against since it's greatly more dangerous

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[RJP]

You DO know that nobody likes a smart-a$$, right?

I've heard that said... more than once.

I was wondering what the reason could be for a policy like that, since doubles are almost as common as singles where I dive, including rec diving. I was particularly wondering if there was a rational reason for it.

Being a smart @ss aside, I was serious. The rational reason is that, as with speaking Japanese, the local market conditions where Frank operates a liveaboard are such that there is no reason to offer doubles on recreational trips. NDL is going to be the rate limiter for any given dive (airhogs notwitstanding)

I don't know of a single liveaboard on the planet - other than those offering tech diving - that allow/offer doubles.

I didn't know you operated a liveaboard, so there's that. I'm used to day boats.

But you have more than one dive per day, yes?

That's why he spent all that money on his fancy nitrox compressor.



---------- Post added June 16th, 2015 at 01:49 PM ----------

No fear mongering and being an Internet diver might make people belive it's a very dangerous activity. Which it isn't. A great deal of people do the activity and I can't find a single documented case of someone dieing or being injured. There is many people drowning swimming in their family pools. That's what you should be advocating against since it's greatly more dangerous

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Now I know you're just being silly.

 

[tstormdiver]

So those that believe that not selling a regulator or renting a tank to this gentleman was wrong because it was not "our business" what he does with it, after telling us his intentions, let me put it in another way. You have a friend who has been drinking heavily, is obviously very impaired & claims he is going to drive home. He has set his keys down & doesn't remember where,.... but you do. Are you going to tell him where his keys are? Hand them to him so he can drive home? If you do & he kills himself &/or someone on the way, what do you think your responsibilities in the situation are? Remember, even though he told you what he was going to do, it is not your business what he does with that car in such a state. Or,... do you in the interest of the safety of your friend & the public at large just let him give up on the keys & sleep it off. Are there ways around this scenario,... of course there are,.... but as stated....

Yes, I guess, I may be a party pooper, by- the- books (standards), no fun instructor, who values safety, but I can sleep at night. Somehow, a vast majority of my students actually enjoy the courses I teach, even within the confines of the agency I teach under & my own moral & ethical standards.

 

[Storker]

I see a "It takes a village..." versus "Mind your own fecking business" conflict here.

 

[victorzamora]

Tammy, I'm very much "new school" when it comes to diving and I'm a pretty conservative guy all-around. I'm certainly in no position to say what you did was wrong...I would've done the same thing. I wouldn't willingly let my shop give a guy telling me he's going to do this full tanks with crappy regs. There's too much litigation potential there. I'm no lawyer, but I wouldn't have handed it over.

HOWEVER, I think it's pretty unfair to compare this guy to the Eagle's Nest fiasco. You're comparing a swimming pool to the Everest of cave diving? That's comparing a walk in the park to a hike up Everest. Walking in the park is fine, hiking Everest with a 5yr old is not.

I'm not saying this guy should have been taking his 8yo grandson in the pool, but I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with it. My first dive ever was an OW dive, at age 11. We signed up for "a dive" with my parents. My mom wasn't certified, my dad was but hadn't been in at least a decade. It was the three of us and one instructor(? divemaster? something). I was taught nothing except quickly briefed how to clear my mask and clear my reg. Shore dive in Coz, where I carried my own AL80 and BCD down to the water. We did a swim-through (about 80ft horizontal of rocks over my head) and got to at least 60ft deep....I think it was almost 80ft. I'm sure a swimming pool would be safer than that. I honestly see nothing wrong with taking an uncertified diver in a pool, as long as the certified diver is competent, comfortable, and watchful...and the uncertified diver is calm, relaxed, and responsible.

I worked for a dive shop that did DSDs at least weekly. We did them in deep swimming pools (mostly the local dive well), and the number of uncertified divers swimming around was astonishingly high. We only had an "issue" once where someone freaked out and bolted to the surface, but she was a chronic "water-in-the-nose-freakout" person that just couldn't overcome it.....we saw it coming.

 

[nimoh]

No fear mongering and being an Internet diver might make people belive it's a very dangerous activity. Which it isn't. A great deal of people do the activity and I can't find a single documented case of someone dieing or being injured. There is many people drowning swimming in their family pools. That's what you should be advocating against since it's greatly more dangerous

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More people die each year in car accidents than in motorcycle accidents. Does that make cars more dangerous?

More people die in bed each year than while rock climbing. Does that make sleeping more dangerous?

 

[Seya]

More people die each year in car accidents than in motorcycle accidents. Does that make cars more dangerous?

More people die in bed each year than while rock climbing. Does that make sleeping more dangerous?

Nobody has died from scuba in their family pool. So scuba in family pool vs people dieing swimming is a valid comparison. If you can figure out that statistic I can help you. It's zero. So that's safer than swimming.

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