You can either complain or do something about the problem: The choice is YOURS!

[redacted]

The more divers we have, the better we are to market to. The better we are to market to, the better deals, gear and experiences will be made available. Most people promote a sport they are participating in. I'm not sure why divers are so different in that respect or if it's just a vocal few who want to be contrarians. ScubaBoard exists for that very reason: to promote Scuba Diving.

Yes, I think that is much clearer.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

It's my opinion that more people should be diving. It's an awesome sport and we should be showing that to everyone. Hell, that's what ScubaBoard is all about.

It's my opinion that people should do whatever they want, and unless they're someone I want under the water with me, I couldn't care less whether they're diving. Except to the extent that fewer divers means fewer people, on average, crowding up boats and sites

Do you feel that we don't need additional divers? If so, why?

Here you're making a jump that doesn't necessarily follow from your opinion as stated above. If more people should be diving because they're missing out, that's a problem for them...is it a problem for divers who aren't treating the sport as a paycheck, though? Who is it that needs more divers, exactly?

And what's implied by the word need? Without them, we'll see no additional innovation? Our present manufacturers will go out of business and we'll be left diving with what we've got? A bunch of LDSs and some marginal and/or has-been brands will shrink, go belly-up, or be bought by more successful competitors?

But since you asked me why not (personally, I think the person advocating for people to give their money for a cause bears the burden of explaining why), here's what I see. Tech diving has been exploding in terms of innovation and options as well as in terms of how many divers are doing ever-deeper/longer dives and spending tens (Hell, some of us are spending hundreds) of thousands of dollars to do it. Just look at the latest CCR tech from companies like JJ, ISC, and rEvo; look at the SW Petrel and NERD; look at the DPV tech from SS and Logic Dive Gear; look at the stuff Halcyon and LM are cranking out. We may be looking at a revolution in O2 cell development in the next couple years--and it's not coming from the kind of businesses you're saying do serious R&D work that benefits the sport, it some tiny-ass company in Europe who may or may not give us an actual, workable solid state O2 cell.

Nor are people I see (and again, I'm not a pro, so maybe the people who need to weigh in here are the tech instructors like Doppler) fueling that just guys and girls who've been doing vanilla rec SCUBA for years and years and are now gradually moving into tech. Instead, it's seeming to be the goal of a lot of divers who are either just starting out or are damn close to it. They tend to be motivated, self-directed, and see serious diving as a demanding sport worth their time and attention -- and money. And why not? Unlike recreational diving, it's giving you the tools to go somewhere you might be a genuine explorer, even if it's just some new piece of cave/a tiny or nearly flattened old wreck/or just some ledge at 500' nobody's seen before. Unlike stuff like Everest, there's nobody you can pay to haul you to the top--if you have what it takes, you'll come back, and if you don't you well may not.

These divers spend, per capita, what has to be tens if not hundreds of times more on diving than the average diver. However, they tend not to be interested in the kind of overpriced hand-holding that comes along with the LDS dealer model that's necessary for your average vacation diver.

All in all, I'm not convinced diving is in need of saving; certainly tech diving isn't. I'm ready to believe the kind of diver that has traditionally supported a lot of SCUBA companies and small businesses may be an endangered species...but I don't see that as a problem so much as a benefit of there being a lot more useful information and smaller companies available to potential participants.

 

[BUDMANOK]

Not sure if anyone in the industry cares or wants my .02 as a consumer but here's an example that I feel really promotes diving.

The DUI demotour that I attended was awesome. Great people from DUI very helpful/ very knowledgeable about their product zero sales pressure

When I get ready to buy another drysuit (have 2 already) it will be from DUI because I liked the product and I like the way they seem to do business. That's a manufacturer selling to me promoting their products and diving along with it.

Maybe that's what DEMA is and I'm not aware of it having never been to one.

 

[John A Lewis]

The idea behind my earlier message was that the "industry" as a whole needs to be more involved in with outreach and sponsoring efforts like this. They are the ones who will take the lion's share of the rewards, why are they not taking more of the risks? Anyway, good luck with your campaign. I will probably be donating towards it, despite this entire thread.

First, thank you in advance for your donation. (The link is in the sig line below.)

Second, I agree with you in that I think that all levels of the industry should be involved. The reason they aren't right now may have something to do with the fact that they know nothing about this effort.

Could you and others reading this help me change that?

 

[Lost down under]

I don't think we have a recruitment problem into the sport, we do however have a retention issue.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Fascinating reading...

but frankly speaking and bluntly too - who gives a Rat's A$$ about DEMA? It's an organisation that organises a trade show and @promotes diving. Although it Claims to be international lets face it it's US centric and according to it's own website has 1300 members! Wow!

I understand that Scubaboard is US based, but all this talk of diving in decline - may just be a US thing - there is a whole big world outside the US borders you know.

But a couple more points from an outsider (non US) looking in. I can't help but be amazed that to get your OW cert in the US you have to purchase equipment Mask snorkel fins gloves? before you start. Really? Anywhere else you rent or the rental of the gear is included in the course.

Next how do you define a regular diver? Before you answer that, a Study in the UK asked people about going to the theatre to see shows or musicals, both Professional and amateur. The result of the study was that people considered themselves regular theatre goers if they went once every 18 months.

Lets try another - how many people ski regularly - its a popular sport nowaday and accessible right? unless you live next to the mountains whats generally regular? 1 week per year on a vacation? How many people try a tandem sky dive and from them how many carry on to certification? I summarize that its very small number of the latter but a large number of the former

Same with diving. Be honest with yourselfs. Apart from the die hards like ourselves who generally dive as much as they can, How do you convince someone that giving up a day every month to dive in a low vis lake or quarry looking at a rusty hulk is a good sport and use of their time.

You entice them with pictures of the Red Sea, the Maldives, the Caribbean etc Glass clear waters, plenty of life - which is what most people want. The fact that every resort world wide teaching Scuba must mean there is a constant flow. The amount of people I've met who consider themselves divers only diving on vacation once per year or even every other year, far outnumber the "regular divers"

But again what is regular - is it someone who dives weekly, monthly, 20 dives per year vacation only divers?

Onto Equipment - again why should a vacation diver buy their own kit? You can cite and number of life support issues etc.etc, but the reality is it would probably take 10 x 14 day vacations diving for 10 days before the money you spent on gear rental equals your outlay for your own personal gear and thats before you take into consideration depreciation of the gear and compound interest on the capital sum for rental.

I wonder how many people certify at their Local LDS in preparation for a vacation? Getting the C Card in advance thus not wasting vacation time, and of these people I wonder how many return to the aforementioned LDS but carry on diving on vacation

I would in summary suggest that Scuba isn't dying at all. I would suggest that people have more disposable income allowing them to travel further and thus they dive in pretty places rather than cold murky ones. I also suggest that any dive video would do nothing for local diving generally the realities of which are different to that shown on the video unless of course the video is shot in all local waters.

But again as an Outsider to the US what do I know anyway

 

[Storker]

I can't help but be amazed that to get your OW cert in the US you have to purchase equipment Mask snorkel fins gloves? before you start. Really? Anywhere else you rent or the rental of the gear is included in the course.

Blanket statements are always dangerous, especially if your perspective is the whole world. Around here, it's not uncommon to have to buy mask, snorkel, fins and gloves before starting on an OW course, while rental of the rest is included in the course fee.

PS: Last time I checked, "around here" was not the US of A...

 

[Diving Dubai]

Blanket statements are always dangerous, especially if your perspective is the whole world. Around here, it's not uncommon to have to buy mask, snorkel, fins and gloves before starting on an OW course, while rental of the rest is included in the course fee.

PS: Last time I checked, "around here" was not the US of A...

I humbly stand corrected on that point thanks

 

[flots am]

So as a scuba customer I'm asking what's the benefit to me to have more divers?

Once you have a few people you want to dive with, "more divers" is absolutely no benefit to you.

The reason the industry needs "more divers" is because more divers buy more equipment and take more OW classes.

The people who have already taken OW are pretty much done and generate little revenue. It's mostly a one-shot deal.

If retention was better there would be only a minimal need for "more divers."

flots.

 

[kr2y5]

Once you have a few people you want to dive with, "more divers" is absolutely no benefit to you.

Since joining recently, I have read a lot of threads, in which people claimed that a variety of things are impossible "because the market is so small", which translates to higher risk that, in turn, requires higher profit margins (higher prices), makes fewer business plans viable (less competition, fewer players, less diversity, less innovation, etc.). Assuming that is true, more divers should benefit everyone, globally and locally. You would see more innovative products when people feel more confident to invest their money in new ventures, you might encounter a different attitude from established companies as a result, locally you might have more boat charters to choose from, more instructors in your neighborhood offering advanced training, etc.

The reason the industry needs "more divers" is because more divers buy more equipment and take more OW classes. The people who have already taken OW are pretty much done and generate little revenue. It's mostly a one-shot deal. If retention was better there would be only a minimal need for "more divers."

Your experience seems to differ from mine... I hardly invested in any equipment at all until several months and 2 dive trips after OW, not until I was reasonably confident that I was not likely going to drop out. I would expect most people to think the same way, especially if they have a tight budget. I have spent by far the most of my money after 3 years and about 100 dives.

I should add that when a LDS owner believes in the "one-shot deal", it really becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy... If no future business is expected, and the relationship has no perceived value, then it makes perfect sense to take advantage of the customer, which ultimately leads to resentment and distrust, and at this point of course little if any future business is possible. There are a lot of mediocre salesmen in this industry who believe that the harder you pull, the more you get, whereas often the exact opposite is true.