Negative entry vs Using a downline

[AfterDark]

BTW, have you ever blown a seal on a dive?

Dale how do you catch them? I'd imagine candy bars don't work. Do you carry a bag of mackerel with you?

 

[Greenjuice]

No BC, no DS - abs BP

Tank tied with a string (well almost)

Well that sets a standard for minimalism! You could have added one more, too - 'no buddy'

Another example, perhaps, that there can't be such a thing as a 'Right' way? If you like it, others don't have to.


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[T.C.]

Well that sets a standard for minimalism! You could have added one more, too - 'no buddy'

Another example, perhaps, that there can't be such a thing as a 'Right' way? If you like it, others don't have to.


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Meh. Minimalism is a tank and a bucket.

Carry the tank under your arm. Put the bucket over your head, and open the valve on the tank, venting air into the bucket. Breathe and enjoy.

I've even heard of divers trying to just breath off the tank by sealing your lips over the valve. Maybe Dale can offer insights into this.

 

[DaleC]

I have never seen, or known of, an unconscious diver that is able to inflate a wing or a horse collar BC...

What can I say. The horse collar was designed as a surface flotation device, like a life jacket. As such it keeps an unconscious person face up. If you want to argue that I suggest you contact the coast guard. Can someone inflate their BC when experiencing an acute medical condition UW that may result in unconsciousness? I don't know but I'd like to think so as that is one of my "last gasp" strategies and something that was in the back of my mind when experiencing acute vertigo last summer. With a wing, or a jacket, you are completely dependent on someone receiving you on the surface where as, with a HC you stand a small chance of not drowning if the initial event doesn't kill you.

Do I spend a lot of time dwelling on that? No. It's just some trivia but not, inaccurate.

I like to dive vintage era equipment so I occasionally use a horse collar (I have 5). It is not in any way onerous, as the "Delta Grove South" video shows. It is not a wing, and as a BC it is sub-optmal because the bubble is under the chest or around the neck and hard to balance. For a bit of lift to offset slight compression it is manageable. Where it does excel is surface swimming with or without a snorkel. I can swim forwards, resting on the bubble and see where I am going and look down into the water, which I can't do with a wing.

Greenjuice, all those videos were shot while solo diving, which I do about 75% of the time.

Breathing off the tank... well almost. Here's a video in which I am trying a Le Prieur inspired device. Basically a tank with a first stage and severed LP hose that continuously flows through a mouthpiece.

[video=youtube;Y7STLNzjHnk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7STLNzjHnk[/video]

I do believe there is a law of primacy, but it has nothing to do with the equipment you use. For me, it is a solid basis in skin diving techniques and general comfort/skill in the water. If you have that, the equipment is just what you happen to be using that dive. This is why I am so opposed to discussions where the gear is placed in a position of greater importance than it need be. Because the focus is wrong.

 

[jadairiii]

.... As such it keeps an unconscious person face up. .....
.....
.

This has been the argument against wings when I bought my BCP in '76. Old argument and I don't think I have read of one instance of a diver drowning with a wing in the 30+ year I have been using one. I am surprised my At-Pac didn't just sprout legs and come into my room and kill me, based on the way dive shops (that didn't sell them) talked about them!

.....Where it does excel is surface swimming with or without a snorkel. I can swim forwards, resting on the bubble and see where I am going and look down into the water, which I can't do with a wing.

.

I have done a ton of beach diving and have swum forward with my BCP, At-Pac and Halcyon wings and found them more comfortable then swimming with my HC. I still have a Farallon HC, I keep it to remind me how much I dislike them.

 

[T.C.]

Breathing off the tank... well almost. Here's a video in which I am trying a Le Prieur inspired device. Basically a tank with a first stage and severed LP hose that continuously flows through a mouthpiece.

Ah... a regulator of death?

The joke on the tank was on your...interesting...techniques to attract pinnipeds while diving.

Or attracting US Navy Special Warfare operators...not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[DaleC]

This has been the argument against wings when I bought my BCP in '76. Old argument and I don't think I have read of one instance of a diver drowning with a wing in the 30+ year I have been using one. I am surprised my At-Pac didn't just sprout legs and come into my room and kill me, based on the way dive shops (that didn't sell them) talked about them!

I'm pretty sure the argument I've heard is that rear inflate BC's like wings push a diver face down on the surface. Which is more a case of being overweighted than BC design. But really, you've never heard of a diver dying while diving wearing a wing in which the COD was drowning.. or that no drowned diver has ever told you it was because they were unconscious on the surface face down?

I have done a ton of beach diving and have swum forward with my BCP, At-Pac and Halcyon wings and found them more comfortable then swimming with my HC. I still have a Farallon HC, I keep it to remind me how much I dislike them.

Well, haters gotta hate. Seems weird to actually keep things around that generate negative feelings though - why don't you send it to me where it will be appreciated and given a second chance at life. I dislike cats but don't have any stuffed ones on my mantle (maybe). I do have various equipment from diving's past but that's more because I enjoy studying and diving with it.

 

[danvolker]

I'm not sure what diving you do, but going down or up a line in current is not that difficult. And the only muscles getting tired are your fingers. You can rest that by hooking your elbow around the line and wrapping a leg for stability.

TC....I know you don't want to dive with me or my buddies, even though we would welcome you....but....I can get a boat in Palm Beach to run a line down to a wreck on a "fast current day" in Palm Beach when you are here....And I guarantee you won't be able to pull your way down....when it is just medium/normal in palm beach on a baby wreck like the Mispah, you would be spun like a fishing lure....on some of the wrecks that get full gulf stream intrusion, they can have double the current on the Mispah.....This is no slam on you....You could be Arnold Swarzenegger in his prime, or an Olympic Decathalete, whatever.....pulling down a line in a full Palm Beach current won't happen----If by some miracle you did pull it off to a 100 foot wreck---and this is not as strong as the currents on the 165 foot deep wrecks or 225 like the Skycliff...even if you did get down, you would blow huge gas, and your muscles would have been pushed....maybe no big deal, but if you stay down to near max no-deco time, then this kind of exertion puts you into extreme risk for DCS....Which is why the boats in Lauderdale are most likely to abort period, if the DM trying to set the hook, says it is ripping. They don't practice hot drops in Lauderdale, so they just tell their groups the current is ripping too fast to dive these wrecks on days like that ( the Gulf stream meanders in and out by many miles in any given day--when it gets close to shore, it means the current is ripping...it can get to within 1 /4 of a mile of shore in Palm Beach....but is normally many miles further out off of Lauderdale( which is why they don't get slammed with currents like Palm beach)... The plus for the big currents, is healthy reefs and more fish. But there are divers that hate currents and drift diving. We can't all like the same thing

You use a snorkel?!? George must be screaming now...

Damnit...there goes another 30 points...

Ha ha... In Bob's scenario, where I know I am surface swimming a good distance, the snorkel is kit for the dive...George would do the same in that scenario. Thing is, there are only a very few scenarios like this off S fl....Normally, it would be useless, so not normally part of my dive gear for the day...Though..you can tuck one into the backplate pouch just in case...like the Halcyon one man liferaft. I don't..Just saying.

 

[T.C.]

TC....I know you don't want to dive with me or my buddies, even though we would welcome you.

Let's not blow smoke; no, you wouldn't.

but....I can get a boat in Palm Beach to run a line down to a wreck on a "fast current day" in Palm Beach when you are here....And I guarantee you won't be able to pull your way down....when it is just medium/normal in palm beach on a baby wreck like the Mispah, you would be spun like a fishing lure.

I'm not saying that a line is the way I'd want to go there, or that it's bad. It's clearly the best for your area.

I may not have dove the strong currents there, but the current dives I've done, where the bubbles from the diver on the line three feet below you never touch you, but I've never felt tired from diving a line in current, except in my fingers. Going up and down the line was just an exercise in negative bouyancy and holding onto the line.

If you're exerting yourself diving; you're usually doing something wrong.

Ha ha... In Bob's scenario, where I know I am surface swimming a good distance, the snorkel is kit for the dive...George would do the same in that scenario. Thing is, there are only a very few scenarios like this off S fl....Normally, it would be useless, so not normally part of my dive gear for the day...Though..you can tuck one into the backplate pouch just in case...like the Halcyon one man liferaft. I don't..Just saying.

I know; it's just a joke. I think seeing a snorkel after OW is a rare occurance.

 

[Splitlip]

Meh. Minimalism is a tank and a bucket.

Carry the tank under your arm. Put the bucket over your head, and open the valve on the tank, venting air into the bucket. Breathe and enjoy.

I've even heard of divers trying to just breath off the tank by sealing your lips over the valve. Maybe Dale can offer insights into this.

Now we are being silly. When I got certed by Frank Hammet we did learn how to use a bottle without a regulator.