Negative entry vs Using a downline

[T.C.]

Sometimes I toss the idea around of leaving my swim suit behind, but I hear that's frowned upon.

Yes. Yes it is.

Yup. Real pokey. Ok.

Yeah. Notice how I didn't say it was slow. I said it wasn't that fast.

After further research, 3.4 mph is about 1.3 mph slower than Michael Phelps swims. It's NOT that fast.

Experience. You need some.

Less of the "my stuff is sooooo awesome, you can't handle it" attitude. Your DIR-ness is showing again.

I have plenty of experience. Not every diver likes looking at boring rocks and risking death every dive. You have no idea what "experienced" means, because you apply your narrow definition to it; i.e. you're not "experienced" if you don't cave dive/tech dive/DIR dive.

This is the perfect example of the DIR mentality. I'm not experienced/good/capable because I don't dive your particular dive religion.

This is exactly why DIR has it's PR image problem.

I have plenty of experience. Too bad you're too stuck up to know it. Your DIR-ness is showing again.

 

[PfcAJ]

Michael phelps isn't wearing a scuba unit.

and it's not about some attitude thing. You literally know nothing about scooters and have zero experience with them, yet you try and pontificate about them to guys with hundreds of dives using DPVs.

 

[T.C.]

Michael phelps isn't wearing a scuba unit.

Yeah...he just has these spindly things coming out his butt and shoulders to move him, too.

and it's not about some attitude thing. You literally know nothing about scooters and have zero experience with them, yet you try and pontificate about them to guys with hundreds of dives using DPVs.

No, I'm just telling you that your super-awesome skill is not that difficult. I know, I bruised your ego because it's pointed out that your special skill isn't so special, your super-awesome gear isn't as fast as you thought.

Sorry, but it's not. And saying that it just boils down to me not being an experienced diver just highlights the attitude of DIR.

Reminds me of something I hear the new Cavalry Troopers in training here yell every morning..."If you ain't Cav, you ain't s---". Maybe you can go back to your DIR buddies and shout, "if you ain't DIR"...

Because that's the whole attitude, as exemplifed in your post. If you're not DIR, you're not "experienced".

 

[lv2dive]

Why don't you just set the record straight and tell us all how many dives you have on a dpv and what type of dpv it is? Because I can vouch for the chaps you are challenging having hundreds of dives on multiple types of scooters but it's hard to understand what kind of validity to consider affording you when all you are doing is saying things that aren't making sense to us.

Yeah...he just has these spindly things coming out his butt and shoulders to move him, too.

 

[Greenjuice]

You don't HAVE to use doubles and a drysuit to be DIR, you know... I'll show up for a shore dive in Cayman with nothing but fins, reg, tank, mask and BC. Hard to get too much less gear than that. Sometimes I toss the idea around of leaving my swim suit behind, but I hear that's frowned upon.

Depends who's looking and how cold the water is!

But if you team up with another DIR diver who likes his longhose, backup mask and reel because it minimises *his* task loading; don't you HAVE to match it for the sake of Standardisation?

I fully *get* the advantages of Team diving in tech scenarios. I also fully *get* the advantages of Standardisation once in a Team; as in a Team your gear is no longer yours, it's part of the Team.

What I don't understand is why such a high level of redundancy, maintained by self imposed and strict rules, doesn't appear to be illogical or even counterproductive in the simpler rec environment; to those who live by a system that was presumably developed on the principles of good sense, logic and high regard for safety.


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[TSandM]

I'm pretty died in the wool DIR and I dive with all kinds of people, mostly novices. When I CAN, I prefer to dive with well-trained buddies. Some of them are DIR and some are cave trained or technically trained, and some are just experienced, good divers (anybody but me remember Charlie99?). I even cave dive with non-DIR folks, if I know them and their way of diving. It just goes smoother and requires less discussion if everybody is on the same page.

Greenjuice, I dive my long hose everywhere, in the tropics and at home. As I said earlier in this thread, Cozumel DMs dive long hoses. I don't know why you think that's unnecessary equipment; a properly routed long hose is very neat and streamlined, and to my mind, much preferable to standard hose routing that sticks out from the diver in big loops. I don't use doubles unless either the dive requires them, I want redundancy for some reason (for example, new, novice buddies and no third team member), or I need the practice. I dive a dry suit, not because it's DIR but because I like it. I can do a DIR dive with a buddy in a wetsuit. Exposure protection doesn't have to be that standardized.

I don't understand the point of the story about the i3. Beginning divers will encounter a lot of unfamiliar equipment and won't necessary do well in an emergency involving strange gear, whether or not it's a backplate and long hose. Unless you are suggesting that no one should ever dive with anyone using anything different from what they use, your argument falls rather flat.

 

[gcarter]

Curiosity, I was actually wondering about this with a friend just a few weeks ago:

Before BP/W, when everyone was using BCD, what was done? Jury rig crotch strap to the BCD or some other solution?

 

[T.C.]

Why don't you just set the record straight and tell us all how many dives you have on a dpv and what type of dpv it is? Because I can vouch for the chaps you are challenging having hundreds of dives on multiple types of scooters but it's hard to understand what kind of validity to consider affording you when all you are doing is saying things that aren't making sense to us.

Irrelevant.

3.4 mph isn't fast. Sorry, but that's a fact. And that's with a minimum-rigged diver. As PfcAJ pointed out, tech divers are much slower due to your gear. His 200 fpm is only 2.3 mph.

The current in Coz generally runs faster than this. Sometimes the truth is just painful.

Tell me how this is so difficult of a skill...or are you just portraying the typical "my gear is super-awesome, and you can't handle it" attitude? We've already seen PfcAJ state that I'm not an experienced diver because I'm not DIR and don't use a scooter.

 

[lv2dive]

I didn't see where AJ said you weren't an experienced diver bc you aren't DIR and don't dive a scooter - but maybe I missed it. ANYHOO - I am TOTALLY not saying that - I dove for ten years before I found GUE and would not say I wasn't experienced (although was one person who would disagree with me but that is a long story /sidetrack),

HOWEVER - I wouldn't presume to talk about how scooters work unless I had dove one in the configuration being discussed. It is totally NOT irrelevant. You can't speak about how something works if you haven't used it. Now you just sound argumentative.

Irrelevant.

3.4 mph isn't fast. Sorry, but that's a fact. And that's with a minimum-rigged diver. As PfcAJ pointed out, tech divers are much slower due to your gear. His 200 fpm is only 2.3 mph.

The current in Coz generally runs faster than this. Sometimes the truth is just painful.

Tell me how this is so difficult of a skill...or are you just portraying the typical "my gear is super-awesome, and you can't handle it" attitude? We've already seen PfcAJ state that I'm not an experienced diver because I'm not DIR and don't use a scooter.

 

[Greenjuice]

Greenjuice, I dive my long hose everywhere, in the tropics and at home. I don't know why you think that's unnecessary equipment;

I don't understand the point of the story about the i3.

Not unnecessary, nor any criticism intended. I fully respect your greater experience and knowledge on these matters. It's just not the minimal.

Both points were related to the idea of minimising gear and gear task loading (which I'm fully subscribed to even before having heard of DIR - who knows, I might even become DIR one day!) and for that true story the i3 was just another thing for her to have to deal with.

I'm trying to understand how this Standardisation (if my understanding is correct, that all Team members will wear long hoses with you), with logical and understandable advantages in tech scenarios, reconciles with the minimal gear principle when away from the tech environment.



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