Rule of Thirds & Shallow Rec diving

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I'm curious how much talking you've done with the major recreational diving agencies ... or more specifically, with the people in them who are responsible for establishing the curriculum for their classes.

Can you enlighten us on what they told you about why they don't teach more comprehensive gas management in OW and AOW classes?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

... that would amaze me too, if it were true. It would indicate that BSAC has some serious deficiencies in their drysuit training. I've personally got thousands of dives in a drysuit, dive almost exclusively with other divers wearing a drysuit, issued dozens of drysuit certifications ... and I've not once ever known anyone who has suffered injury due to problems with their drysuit. That includes people who are using them inside of caves, wrecks, and below 200 feet. That would cause me to wonder why BSAC trained divers are having all these problems ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm referring to local dive shops that teach recreational diving or run dive charters as well as my experience overseas. I recall seeing a post from an instructor on this thread that highlighted the recreational diving requirements for PADI which confirmed rock bottom planning was not a part of the syllabus he posted. I've said previously, this thread is the first time I've become aware of rock bottom planning.

The BSAC incident reports are found here:

http://www.bsac.com/page.asp?section=1038&sectionTitle=Annual+Diving+Incident+Report

There is a section in the front of each that gives the number of ascent related incidents and how many were related to drysuit malfunction or misuse. For the 2013 report there were seven such 7 incidents. I don't think these are only divers trained by BSAC.
 
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Rock bottom isn't included in the minimum standards of PADI's OW or AOW course. That does NOT mean Rock Bottom (RB/MG) isn't suitable for recreational diving. Many instructors, as I hope you're aware, only ever see the minimum standards FAR below where they teach to. Good instructors blow right past the minimum standards without even slowing down. The minimum standards should be viewed as the bare minimum, not as the goal. That is what the agencies intended.

My wife was taught using the minimum standards, and absolutely suffers because of it. I was in my OW, AOW, and Rescue courses, but I taught myself Nitrox (no thanks to PADI eLearning) and had incredible Cave instructors. My wife and I work on her skills every dive, and she's really showing her skill increase. I'm teaching her RB as a tool for her to use, and I'll be plotting/printing MinGas charts and attaching them to our slates.

However, let me ask you a serious question I honestly and actually want a well thought-out answer to. How would you handle the following situation?

You are diving your current, standard configuration. You are diving to 30m with a buddy (obviously) using your current, standard, gas-planning methodology. RIGHT before you start to ascend, your buddy signals OOA. You had a good SAC rate, so you really pushed your NDL. What do you do?
 
You are diving your current, standard configuration. You are diving to 30m with a buddy (obviously) using your current, standard, gas-planning methodology. RIGHT before you start to ascend, your buddy signals OOA. You had a good SAC rate, so you really pushed your NDL. What do you do?

Your purpose is unclear. Why don't you tell us what you'd do and I'll say if I agree.
 
... that would amaze me too, if it were true. It would indicate that BSAC has some serious deficiencies in their drysuit training.

You know, when I hear claims like that, I like to go to the cited material and check for myself. I haven't read every incident report, but I did read the summary. And for the benefit of readers who may be scared by Foxfish's version of the numbers, here's a summary of the summary:

p. 1:
2013 has seen 263 UK diving incidents reported
That's the grand total. Two hundred and sixty-three. More than a quarter of a thousand. If we compare seven directly related to faulty or mis-used dry suits to a grand total of more than a quarter of a thousand, the picture doesn't look that bad, does it?.

p. 4:
Fatalities
14 fatal incidents occurred in the UK during the 2013 incident year [...]
  • Three cases involved divers who suffered a 'non-diving' related medical incident (for example a heart attack) whilst in the water. [...]
  • Four cases involved a separation of some kind. [...]
  • Three cases involved divers who were unable to gain or maintain positive buoyancy [...]
    (my note: These may be dry suit related. It doesn't say they are, but it doesn't exclude the possibility either)
  • Three cases involved divers diving in a group of three [...]
  • Two cases involved divers who were diving alone [...]
  • One case involved a diver who was using a rebreather [...]
  • One case involved a dive to a maximum depth of 54m. [...]
  • One case involved a diver who entered the water with his gas supply turned off.
  • One case involved a double fatality where the divers were recovered from the seabed nine days later. Very little is currently known about this incident.
This adds up to more that 14, so obviously there are fatalities involving more than one of the listed factors.

Anyhow, three out of 14 fatalities were buoyancy-related, and given the prevalence of dry suits in UK waters, we can assume that a faulty or misused dry suit may possibly have been involved. But as far as I can see, there's no cite that any of those fatalities were directly related to dry suit misuse or malfunction. Also, if we look at the ratio between dry suit related incidents and "simply poor buoyancy control" related incidents (see my quote from p.5 further down in this post), it's statistically unlikely that any of those fatalities were directly related to mis-used or faulty drysuits.

p. 5:
Decompression incidents
[...]

An analysis of the causal factors associated with the 91 incidents reported in 2013 indicates the following major features:
  • 38 involved repeat diving
  • 15 involved rapid ascents
  • 13 involved diving to deeper than 30m
  • 13 involved missed decompression stops
Some cases involved more than one of these factors.

[...]
Boating and Surface incidents
The number of incidents reported in 2013 has dropped back to earlier levels with a total of 55 incidents recorded. The factors associated with these incidents are as follows:
  • 28 involved lost diver(s)
  • 24 involved engine problems
  • 8 involved boat problems
  • 2 involved bad seamanship
Some cases involved more than one of these factors

[...]
Ascent related incidents
Ascent related incidents have been falling in recent years and this year sees that trend continuing with 43 cases reported. As in previous years the majority of these were ‘rapid ascents’. An analysis of these ‘rapid ascents’ (where the detail is known) is as follows:
  • 42% Simply poor buoyancy control
  • 23% Regulator free flows
  • 16% Drysuit control malfunction/mis-use
  • 13% Delayed SMB problems
  • 13% Out of air / gas
  • 10% Panic / anxiety / rush for surface
  • 10% Weighting or weight related issues

So, Foxfish is formally correct in that seven incidents (not seven fatalities. Seven incidents) in UK in 2013 were dry suit related. Seven out of 43 ascent-related incidents. Seven out of a grand total of 263 diving related incidents. While 18 out of the 43 ascent-related incidents were "simply poor buoyancy control" not related to dry suit mis-use or malfunction. In my limited experience, it does take a little more care to properly control your buoyancy in a dry suit, especially if you're using the suit for primary buoyancy control underwater. Given the prevalence of dry suits in UK waters, the fact that just seven incidents could be attributed directly to the dry suit while two and a half as many were "simply poor buoyancy control" doesn't look like the picture Foxfish is trying to paint: That dry suits are dangerous. But hey, it was apparently a bona fide attempt to shift the goalposts and change the subject of the thread...

As the saying goes, there are three kinds of lies: there are lies, there are d@mned lies, and then there's statistics.

---------- Post added December 6th, 2013 at 03:33 PM ----------

By the way, I have a significantly lower risk of being "unable to gain or maintain positive buoyancy" - the second most prevalent factor involved in fatalities in the UK in 2013 - if I'm diving dry. If I'm diving wet, I have two tools for gaining or maintaining positive buoyancy: I can inflate my BCD, or I can ditch my weights. With my dry suit, I have redundant buoyancy. Since I'm not overweighted, I can maintain positive buoyancy on the surface with a ripped wing even without ditching my weights. I might look a little weird with my DS inflated so that I look like the Michelin man, but I'm definitely positively buoyant. And since I dive using rock bottom calculations with an extra safety margin to have a little gas left after surfacing, it's pretty unlikely that I won't have any gas left to use to inflate my DS ;)
 

---------- Post added December 6th, 2013 at 03:33 PM ----------

By the way, I have a significantly lower risk of being "unable to gain or maintain positive buoyancy" - the second most prevalent factor involved in fatalities in the UK in 2013 - if I'm diving dry. If I'm diving wet, I have two tools for gaining or maintaining positive buoyancy: I can inflate my BCD, or I can ditch my weights. With my dry suit, I have redundant buoyancy. Since I'm not overweighted, I can maintain positive buoyancy on the surface with a ripped wing even without ditching my weights. I might look a little weird with my DS inflated so that I look like the Michelin man, but I'm definitely positively buoyant...
but it's so warm when you're inflated like the Michelin man...
 
Yup, it sure is. I specifically prohibit taking photos of me if we're going back from an outing in an open boat if it's cold, because I always look as if I've gained about 20 kilos. And I'm a bit vain that way.
 
Your purpose is unclear. Why don't you tell us what you'd do and I'll say if I agree.

How could my purpose be unclear? I was asking a hypothetical question, expecting a direct and honest answer. No more, no less. Please, answer the question directly. I promise, I will tell you exactly what I would do after you answer. Walk me through, step-by-step, what you would do in the following situation. No sarcasm, no traps, no underhandedness meant. I'm honestly and sincerely asking a question. Please, use detail in your answer.

You are diving your current, standard configuration. You are diving to 30m with a buddy (obviously) using your current, standard, gas-planning methodology. Everything on this dive has gone right so far. RIGHT before you start to ascend, your buddy signals OOA due to an unforseeable error, not caused by your buddy. You had a good SAC rate, so you really pushed your NDL. What do you do?
 
I'm unclear how a drysuit flood can lead to the inability to gain or maintain positive buoyancy ... particularly in recreational diving. Don't they have a BCD? Don't they use ditchable weights?

I've experienced a total flood before ... as in, "Oh My God, I Forgot To Zip My Drysuit" ... you can't get much more water in your drysuit than that. The biggest difficulty isn't maintaining buoyancy on the surface ... it's getting back on the boat with all that weight. But the water inside your suit ain't heavy until you try to get out ... in fact, it weighs exactly the same as the water on the outside of the drysuit.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
In terms of PADI's traditional view of managing ascents goes, I do know the thinking behind it. That is because I wrote a very extensive specialty course in dive planning, including gas management. In the process of getting it approved, I had a prolonged email debate with a representative of PADI headquarters related to the course. We spent a lot of time arguing about gas management. His view was that for normal recreational diving, the only thing the diver needed to know was when to ascend so that he or she could surface with an adequate reserve. Divers just had to monitor their gauges to make sure that happens. In response, I pointed out that the course as written did not even teach either knowing when to ascend to ensure a proper reserve or monitoring the gauges. My course was eventually approved with an extremely thorough section on gas management--including rock bottom protocols. (So, yes, there is a PADI course that teaches rock bottom principles for recreational diving--you just have to find one of the few instructors certified to teach it.)

I don't know how much that conversation impacted their thinking. I do know that after our debate, PADI conducted a joint study on dive fatalities with DAN. That study showed that OOA situations are the primary triggering event in the overwhelming majority of dive incidents not related to health issues. PADI's announced changes in the OW course for the coming year are partially based on that study, and they include much more instruction about gas management. In my view, it is still not enough, but it is a significant improvement over what was done in the past.
 

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