Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[gee13]

Anything is possible and we will probably not ever know what happened. I can see how task fixation on taking a photo might distract someone from monitoring air. But I just don't buy that carrying a camera is that big of a physical issue that greatly impedes dropping weights etc. I carry a DSLR, 4 arms, 2 strobes, focus light and GoPro mounted on the housing and it just isn't that big of deal. I resumed carrying my camera rig on my drysuit dive #4. My rig is slightly negative but it is still easy (underwater) to do anything with it with just one hand on it. A few times when I need both hands for a second it's no problem to stick it between my legs and hold it that way. I keep mine on a tether attached to my right chest D ring and if I need both hands free for a longer period of time I keep a bolt snap on my left chest D ring so I can keep my camera attached to me and out of the way. That's what I do when I deploy a SMB and reel underwater for instance. And I just don't buy that any reasonably intelligent person has an issue with dropping a rig completely in 10 feet of water if it means the difference between getting air on the surface or not.

A lot of things happened in this chain of events to make a bad ending. The camera could be one of those items. But I just don't buy that it was likely a major issue.

No one said having a camera was a major issue. But it is a link.in the chain. You may be familiar with your big DSLR rig but you are not Marcia in her situation (newish larger rig than what she was used to)....on that fateful day. I have a big DSLR rig, I can deploy a smb in current with that rig attached (Im talking Komodo type current btw)...but does that mean any diver with my same rig can, and if they are diving a newish DS configuration after wetsuit? Hell if I was diving a DS new configuration I would probably struggle to deploy an smb, camera in hand in apparent easy shallow water conditions let alone in current! In order to understand we cant simply compare like for unlike situations. Add to this unfamiliar territory plus an environment of cold water where Marcia was fish out of water (and already documented cold water diving was not her flavourite) you have a serious factorial link in the chain ..leading to the fatality.

 

[victorzamora]

One thing I have to mention is all of this talk about her BCD/drysuit becoming more or less buoyant upon ascent/descent. If her wing was FULL at the bottom, the OPV would've kept it FULL...and lift provided wouldn't correlate at all to depth. Her drysuit would, but wing wouldn't. If her drysuit was as "empty" as shown in some of the pictures, but full enough for comfort....rising would've done nothing at worst, or increased "lift" at best. If she was diving near neutrally buoyant (or close to it, and compensating with finning) with her BCD and drysuit config, and went OOA near the bottom.....there's no reason for her to have been as negative as was discussed earlier, other than her lungs no longer being an airspace. That should be no more than about 6kg (13.2lbs) of additional negative buoyancy. However, all of this talk of her being 28# negative and being fully incapable of coming off of the bottom I don't believe. Also, the state of air in her drysuit and wing have some evidence.

1) Clearly, she wasn't obscenely negative.....but probably didn't have the reserve lift capacity that would've been nice in cold water with all of that weight.
2) If her wing was really FULL (as has been claimed) when she was found, I don't believe she surfaced with a completely empty tank. If she had a full wing at the bottom, surfaced, and then descended, the wing wouldn't be fully inflated at the bottom as the OPV would've released air on ascent. Not much, but it would've been enough to be noticeable. Plus, if she was nearly neutral at the bottom, surfaced, as long as her drysuit dump valve wasn't ABOVE her head
3) The extremely negative nature was almost certainly due to the 4-6L of water that had been airspace, creating an additional 4-6kg of negative buoyancy.
4) Getting the camera and the computer and trying to correlate time stamps between the two is the best bet on learning more about what happened.

I will say that I understand Andy's point more and more about being overly-calm possibly causing issues. He told a story about a DM/Instructor diving off the back of a boat super negative with his tank off. Without a proper gear check before the dive, he could've strapped himself into a completely empty tank before stepping off the back. By the time he would've turned the valve, realized the tank was empty, and then fixed it....it could've easily been too late.

Here's some speculation, and I DO apologize for it....but I don't think it's unfounded or implausible/unrealistic.
About low blood pressure and passing out: I'm a big guy with pretty low blood pressure. I NEVER pass out. EVER. I rarely feel woosy or weak. However, a longer dive in colder water, overweight and dragging a big camera around is tiring. Add in the mental work of maintaing perfect buoyancy in weird orientations in quite a bit of new gear, while making sure you get the framing of the picture JUST right....the dive gets tiring. Add in a little possible dehydration due to the drysuit (gearing up in the drysuit is normally warm and if she wasn't "plugged in" then a little under-hydration may have allowed her to resist the urge....I know I did this when dry and not plugged in) and you get a possibly very tired, slightly dehydrated diver in quite a bit of new gear, separated from buddies, and gets light headed. I know when I get light headed from standing up, it's instant, incapacitating, disorienting, and has no warning. My mother is the

 

[mdb]

We are now over 70,000 views on this thread. Marcia continues to teach us and this thread has remained very civil.

 

[Zippsy]

Correct me if I am wrong but the total volume of the lungs in females about Quero's size is on average about 4.5 liters. That 4.5 liters, however, is what she would be able to inhale with an extremely deep breath. I would think that the amount of water in her lungs would not have been more than 3 liters but I have had trouble finding a useful source for the physiology of drowning. It makes sense to me though as even if she was forcing water into her lungs, as if taking a deep breath, her passing would have likely relaxed the diaphram to return the volume to a resting 2 - 3 liters. That means she was at the most 3kg (6.6lbs) more negative at the bottom after passing away. With a fully inflated BCD - if she was properly weighted - the extra 6.6lbs should not have left her on the bottom. She was definitely overweighted even with air in her lungs.

 

[ajduplessis]

Laryngospasm would have prevented that much water entering her lungs.

 

[Farback]

Correct me if I am wrong but the total volume of the lungs in females about Quero's size is on average about 4.5 liters. That 4.5 liters, however, is what she would be able to inhale with an extremely deep breath. I would think that the amount of water in her lungs would not have been more than 3 liters but I have had trouble finding a useful source for the physiology of drowning. It makes sense to me though as even if she was forcing water into her lungs, as if taking a deep breath, her passing would have likely relaxed the diaphram to return the volume to a resting 2 - 3 liters. That means she was at the most 3kg (6.6lbs) more negative at the bottom after passing away. With a fully inflated BCD - if she was properly weighted - the extra 6.6lbs should not have left her on the bottom. She was definitely overweighted even with air in her lungs.

On average, a deceased person is about 7 pounds negative without scuba gear adding or subtracting lift.

 

[Zippsy]

In the words of Taxi's Rev. Jim, "You mean I was right"?

 

[letterboy]

Correct me if I am wrong but the total volume of the lungs in females about Quero's size is on average about 4.5 liters. That 4.5 liters, however, is what she would be able to inhale with an extremely deep breath. I would think that the amount of water in her lungs would not have been more than 3 liters but I have had trouble finding a useful source for the physiology of drowning. It makes sense to me though as even if she was forcing water into her lungs, as if taking a deep breath, her passing would have likely relaxed the diaphram to return the volume to a resting 2 - 3 liters. That means she was at the most 3kg (6.6lbs) more negative at the bottom after passing away. With a fully inflated BCD - if she was properly weighted - the extra 6.6lbs should not have left her on the bottom. She was definitely overweighted even with air in her lungs.

I had thought about water weight being added in reference to a drysuit flood thus loss of some buoyancy, but had not considered volume lost due to water in the lungs displacing air.

Maybe it has been mentioned, I tuned out a few pages ago. Could this be why they had trouble keeping her body bouyant on the surface? An added 6-7 pounds of water weight equating more to the loss of that buoyancy than actual weight while in the water.

That would be correct, would it not be? Lungs filled with water would become neutral while submerged, only when they are raised above the water line would they effect her weighting as added weight vs loss of buoyancy...

 

[boulderjohn]

It was mentioned awhile ago. I referenced a description of a body recovery operation in which it was stressed that the body, with neither gear nor weights, was extremely negative and hard to handle.

 

[Diver0001]

I had thought about water weight being added in reference to a drysuit flood thus loss of some buoyancy, but had not considered volume lost due to water in the lungs displacing air.

..

John,

The drysuit was not flooded. The vent *may* have been open which *may* have caused it to vent unintentionally during an ascent. It has also not been established that she tried to make an ascent. That idea may have come from a theory I suggested early on in the thread.

When the rescuers cut open the drysuit to apply the AED the undergarment and her chest were dry.

R..