Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Diver0001]

None of us should ever be guilty of allowing one of our dive buddies to place themselves into this situation. As we all can see, the stakes are just way too high...

That's easier said than done. One of the things that I think might have played a role in the accident is that since Marcia was such an experienced diver the others didn't concern themselves too much with her gear config, even though it was new to her. There was an inherent trust (and not completely unfounded) that she knew what she was doing. The day before the dive she was tweaking the configuration and even consulted someone from a shop about it. To all involved it looked like she had things under control and nobody had any inclination that they were "placing her" into any kind of "situation".

Hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easy to say after the fact that they should have looked at her config. If they had known then what they know now then they would have.... but suggesting that they "allowed" her to put herself in danger suggests that it was a conscious decision, which it was not. There was an assumption made about her knowledge of the configuration. It's not like they knew it was dangerous and say, "whatever".

The obvious lesson to take from this is to be aware that when someone is making major changes to a configuration that as a buddy it's wise to get involved in that process. It wasn't done in this case but it could have made a difference.

R..

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You also have to be aware that someone is making major changes or in unfamiliar gear. IF that is not communicated well they may not realize there is a problem waiting to happen much closer than they think.

And I think the phrase "new diver panic" should be tossed out the window. Panic is panic. We each have our own threshold and as Andy indicated earlier experienced divers and instructors may not realize where that is until it's too late to do anything about it. Which is why the more experience one gets the more they should be aware that while you may be able to handle more than a new diver all that handling could lead to huge ball of crap that you're "managing" until one more thing turns it into a storm that you can't.

Managing IMO is never as good as working through, getting help, and solving things so you don't have to "manage" them.

 

[Hawkwood]

Great comment Diver0001.

If this all went down as has been discussed, it really is a crying shame on so many levels.

Instructors caution students on a number of points: get familiar with new gear or configurations; not to task load when dealing with unfamiliar gear; make changes one at a time; a new environment/new gear can equate to "starting" over; the whole concept behind "the environment in which you are certified in" or familiar with, etc.

Even if what has been discussed related to Marcia's death is pure speculation and not how it actually happened, the learning/teaching points to come out of the discussion are so important and warrant being passed on.

Lynne said it earlier - although hard take, this has been an opportunity to learn.

Bill

 

[gypsyjim]

That's easier said than done. One of the things that I think might have played a role in the accident is that since Marcia was such an experienced diver the others didn't concern themselves too much with her gear config, even though it was new to her. There was an inherent trust (and not completely unfounded) that she knew what she was doing. The day before the dive she was tweaking the configuration and even consulted someone from a shop about it. To all involved it looked like she had things under control and nobody had any inclination that they were "placing her" into any kind of "situation".

Hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easy to say after the fact that they should have looked at her config. If they had known then what they know now then they would have.... but suggesting that they "allowed" her to put herself in danger suggests that it was a conscious decision, which it was not. There was an assumption made about her knowledge of the configuration. It's not like they knew it was dangerous and say, "whatever".

The obvious lesson to take from this is to be aware that when someone is making major changes to a configuration that as a buddy it's wise to get involved in that process. It wasn't done in this case but it could have made a difference.

R..

There is also the factor that when divers with a LOT less experience are diving with someone who has vastly more experience, and who is also very confident, those other divers are probably not going to be comfortable "correcting the instructor". They might make observations, and even suggestions, but they probably are not going to feel that they have the right to over rule, or really criticize the vastly more experienced, accomplished diver.

 

[lowviz]

That's easier said than done. ...//... To all involved it looked like she had things under control and nobody had any inclination that they were "placing her" into any kind of "situation". ...//...

Agreed. But looking back, it was a disaster on wheels. So maybe it should have been looked at differently from the beginning. Marcia could be difficult and she disliked being seen as a "weak link". Maybe people just backed off a bit and rationalized too much. Her complaining about the cold was an issue, her demonstrated buoyancy control problems were another. She had a suit that might have been too small for proper thermals, maybe she used lead as insulation...

...//... There was an inherent trust (and not completely unfounded) that she knew what she was doing. ...//...

Yes shades of gray. Not completely unfounded and not, by any means, proven.

...//... The obvious lesson to take from this is to be aware that when someone is making major changes to a configuration that as a buddy it's wise to get involved in that process. It wasn't done in this case but it could have made a difference. ...//...

Here, we agree completely.

 

[lowviz]

There is also the factor that when divers with a LOT less experience are diving with someone who has vastly more experience, and who is also very confident, those other divers are probably not going to be comfortable "correcting the instructor". They might make observations, and even suggestions, but they probably are not going to feel that they have the right to over rule, or really criticize the vastly more experienced, accomplished diver.

And there is the real problem, and my take-away from this senseless loss of life.



edit: removed left-over . Please, mods, use a bit more attention when editing posts.

 

[AfterDark]

Many good points being made and possibilities brought up. Question: Where was her buddy?

Now I'm as or more guilty than anyone of not being a good buddy in that I drift off and do my own thing. That said I've had buddies that just will not let me do that. Every time I think "check on X" there he'd be right behind, above and to my right, every time! It was almost annoying. A much better buddy than I. Darn shame she didn't have a buddy like that.

 

[D_B]

using a small travel BC/wing in cold water & drysuit troubles me, it's one of the things mentioned by my instructor in my drysuit class as something not to do (class reviewed and is posted here on SB)

I didn't see this mentioned yet, she posted that her BC was evidently able to slide back and forth side to side with the shorter tanks she was using
but she does say in a later post that she had "nailed" her buoyancy control on the second dive

more information that may or may not mean a

 

[gypsyjim]

I have quite recently been hosted myself by the very same people as Marcia was staying and diving with, and as hosts go I would have to search high and low to find any as good, let alone better, both as hosts and as safe dive buddies, in who's caring hands I would, and have placed myself and one that I care for when diving this and other Sydney dive sites.

 

[beaverdivers]

I really wonder if the drysuit was too restrictive for her to remove her gear easily. She relayed to me that it was quite tight, so tight that she apparently hadn't left any room for the undergarment. Has anybody dived the DUI 30/30? I'm not familiar with it but it does look like it could be a closely fitting suit.

I have a DUI 30/30. I have around 50 hours diving it in Komodo, Indonesia & using it for pool dives to train Open Water ( OW ) students. ( I am allergic to the chemicals in fresh water pools, the water is 84 degrees F ) I suggested a DUI TLS. Please note the 30/30 has seals at the ankles so you can wear full foot fins in warm water. Therefore, there are two more seals for the dry suit to leak. I don't know if this fact is important or not in her incident.

In a very recent thread, I replied to Quero about the 30/30. I pointed out that it didn't have an extending torso so it was more difficult to get in & out of the drysuit. The 30/30 is a tropical drysuit. It is meant to fit snug using a thinner undergarment.

As far as doffing a B.C./wing, it might have been more difficult for her if it was too tight. However, I don't believe ditching your B.C./wing is an appropriate response to most emergency situations. Don't we teach ditching your weights in OW training? As a SCUBA instructor, didn't Quero demonstrate this skill many times?

Why didn't she ditch her weights?