Do you physically release your buddy's weights during the buddy check?

[DaleC]

On the other hand two 10lb pouches is better than a 20lb belt.

Why? I don't here people complaining about how complicated it is to release them.

 

[tamas970]

... as there was a fatality in Norway last summer where the victim was able to surface, but lost consciousness, and since his buddy wasn't able¹ to drop his weights or otherwise secure positive buoyancy, the victim sank and drowned.

#1: I don't have the details but Did BOTH BCD's fail??? Otherwise I can't imagine a situation where I have to see my buddy sinking.
#2: Other point of the buddy check: "releases" - the buddy has to be able to free his partner from the entire scuba gear. If this happens underwater, they can still come up on octo. without the overweighted jacket, the troubled diver is in all case positively bouyant unless his lungs are full of water.

My lessons learned: I'll stick to my weight belt and a close to neutral scuba unit. The lead is there to compensate your strongly positive suit and body buoyancy anyway. The only drawback with my new BC is that the crotch strap gets in the way, but that can be released quite quickly.

I think that the next time I'm buddied up with another person than my regular buddy, I'll check that I really can release his weights before we splash.

I certainly wouldn't like you to release my weight belt once I managed to put on my whole gear . If you take out the tank weight, that's forgivable.

 

[Storker]

this is what I see all the time at our training sites. People load the BC, heave it onto a tailgate or bench, then put it on and jump in. And the instructors say nothing because they are doing the same thing.

With all due respect, that's stoopid. First you heave the BC onto a tailgate or a bench, then you load it, then you don it and jump in. Or, if there's no tailgate or bench near you, load the BC while it's on the ground, sit down with your back to the BC, don it, get up, jump in. Heaving a loaded BCD from the ground and up is a pretty effective method for pulling a muscle or three. I needed only one or two dives with a weight-integrated BCD with 5kg in each pocket to understand that. It's not rocket science.

I run a Ranger with a ripcord and if my 'buddy' pulled it for practice he would end up with a groin injury.

I see you believe in good and constructive pre-dive buddy communication.

And since I often dive from a small boat, SOP being to release the weights and hand them up to the boatman before climbing aboard, I'll never consider a weight-integrated BCD with a ripcord system. YMMV, of course.

I don't have the details but Did BOTH BCD's fail??? Otherwise I can't imagine a situation where I have to see my buddy sinking.

As I said in the OP, there was a bit more to the story. Most pertinent: The guy who didn't drown wasn't certified and probably hadn't drilled weight release/securing positive buoyancy before they splashed. But still, when I read the story as a newly certified OW diver it made me really understand how important it is not only being aware of where your buddy's weights are, but also knowing how to release them. Something those never-erring guys with 1000+ dives of course know, but a less experienced diver - perhaps not so much...

I certainly wouldn't like you to release my weight belt once I managed to put on my whole gear

AFAIK, there's only one way to release a standard issue weight belt. No problem there. The (potential) problem comes when your buddy has a weight-integrated BCD and you aren't intimately familiar with the release system. Of which there - again AFAIK - are at least a half dozen different flavors. Are you always 100% sure that you know how to operate the specific flavor of your insta-buddy's quick releases?

 

[tamas970]

Are you always 100% sure that you know how to operate the specific flavor of your insta-buddy's quick releases?

Definitely not! () I realized the problem when I bought my own Masterlift TEK BP/W with its Beuchat weight pockets which I am avoiding to use. Pulling doesn't bring you anywhere, you have to release two(!) clips before. Anyway, if I saw a buddy having his/her BCD failing I'd just grab him/her, add some more air to my wing and carry up to the surface. That would save her/him a chamber ride and possibly further dives on the day. Floating ON the surface is another question - however, my wing is a bit oversized and enough to float 2 divers...

All in all, I don't see many reasons to dump the weight other than saving the life of a seized diver. Even here drastic BCD inflation rockets you to the surface (and to the chamber) in seconds. Being insta-buddied with a herd-trained noobie or a cowboy of course changes the picture. This case you are practically solo-diving and if your bcd fails you either try an alternative (liftbag or SMB) or ditch some weight.

 

[Storker]

if I saw a buddy having his/her BCD failing I'd just grab him/her, add some more air to my wing and carry up to the surface. That would save her/him a chamber ride and possibly further dives on the day. Floating ON the surface is another question - however, my wing is a bit oversized and enough to float 2 divers...

All in all, I don't see many reasons to dump the weight other than saving the life of a seized diver.

Which is why I consider dumping weights on the surface more relevant than dumping weights below water, and that's what I'm drilling. In an emergency, if I - G*d forbid - had to handle an unconscious buddy, s/he would have to be grossly overweighted for me not being able to bring him/her to the surface using my and/or my buddy's BCD and/or dry suit inflator. On the surface, however, I probably wouldn't think twice about dumping weights in an emergency.

If everything goes well, we know that we'll get the cost of new weights and pockets refunded by the Norwegian Diving Association. If not, I guess the cost of new weights would be pretty low on anybody's priorities list...

 

[tamas970]

Costs are negligible here, I'd only be concerned in crowded places if I hit/kill a diver below.

There is more to the picture - although it mostly concerns tek divers: some tanks may be so heavy (e.g 2x10L 300bar steels) that the diver doesn't wear a single kg of lead. Sounds heresy, but not all divers use disposable weights...

 

[DaleC]

I think the cost of a release system does play a big part in peoples decision making process. I'm a lot more likely to risk losing $10 than $100 during a normal dive.

How often does one face an immediate, stress free decision to dump weights in which the end result (drowning) is clearly seen, so as to make the relevant choice. I suspect in some cases there is an escalation of events wherein the decision to dump is deferred because it seems too drastic. As an incident unfolds, and the diver begins to experience the seriousness of the situation, they may begin to panic and forget that option all together.

I've never seen anyone, outside of a course, practice dumping an integrated weight pouch during a dive. I have however, on a number of occasions, removed or repositioned a weightbelt UW (for various reasons). How strong is a skill that is never practiced.

I agree with the premise of the OP, though not actually releasing pre-dive of course. It's amazing to me how few people during a pre-dive even look at what sort of release system their buddy has. Or actually deploy their octo to see if it's easily done or trapped. If/when I dive with a newer diver it is always one of the points I try to reenforce. I think this is partly a comfort issue, with newer divers being so preoccupied understanding their own kit they simply don't see their buddies; and partly the "believing nothing bad will ever happen to me" syndrome that divers of all experience levels are subject to.

I've never felt particularly lucky so I check.

 

[TSandM]

It is a hazardous approach, to raise an unconscious or unresponsive diver using YOUR BC. If, for any reason, you lose control and contact with the other diver, you are immediately extremely positive. It is much better to use THEIR BC. If their BC has failed, they should be able to swim up or ditch weights -- and they should know how to ditch their OWN weights!

 

[Crass3000]

It is a hazardous approach, to raise an unconscious or unresponsive diver using YOUR BC. If, for any reason, you lose control and contact with the other diver, you are immediately extremely positive. It is much better to use THEIR BC. If their BC has failed, they should be able to swim up or ditch weights -- and they should know how to ditch their OWN weights!

I can see your point but I feel in more control of the ascent and the other diver when I use just my BCD to raise either type of diver. There certainly are plenty of things to think about even in a thread like this. I guess you are right though. No reason to make two oneself another victim. It would be just as easy to just use the other diver's BC.

As for weights, I couldn't use a weight belt (cold water diver) as all the weight slipped over my hips. I like to use the DUI harness. I guess I should think about spreading out my weight but it seems easy to take a couple weights out of the harness instead of pulling the whole pocket. That's assuming I'm the one pulling my weights though.

My favorite is the overweighted BP/W diver. I had one congratulating his wife because she didn't need any extra weight (he was an odd arrogant type). She couldn't ditch any weight and started trying to get to the surface. She was flailing and maybe could have got to the top once more. Buddy somehow turned her air off with doubles???????? I'm assuming not all the air was on when they entered. Her husband had a heart attack trying to help her. Pulled two arrogant overly trained out of the water that day. Both got ambulance rides but both survived. Was pretty intense given I only had my wetsuit on.

 

[AlexL]

we had agreed to do a couple of drills at the end of the dive.

just a lowly freshly minted OW stroke here... but am the only one who this raises a big red flag with?

in OW, we were taught to do any drills involving buoyancy at the start of the dive, when tissue gas loading is at its lowest. if someone happens to do an impromptu imitation of a cork, the risk factors involved are lower when you're only working with a few minutes worth of shallow ongassing, rather than when you're riding the NDL at the end. risk of dangerous ascent rates are also aggravated by drilling with a near empty cylinder.

not sure if it applies to OP's situation, but i would much rather find out and address that a new buddy is skittish at the start rather than mid dive as well.