Diving myths taught for safety?

[bl6394]

I'd say the biggest difference is that while caves are much bigger and potentially navigationally more complicated, wrecks are more unstable and changeable, not only because they're in the process of falling apart, but because of their ocean/lake environment, with the associated currents, weather. overhead traffic, etc.

Cave is typically going to involve a much longer penetration - could be 1000 feet or much more - before you are able to exit the overhead - but typically a much more predictable environment.

Wreck typically is much shorter penetrations - with many more entanglement hazards - and probably poorer vis. Even with perfect finning technique - you're likely to decrease the vis with your exhaust causing percolation of rust off the ceiling.


Also - another myth I hear frequently....

"Open your valve all the way - and then turn it back an eight to a quarter turn - to prevent damaging the valve or freezing it open..."

Meh - it's a lousy idea. It tends to lead to confusion about the valve status - and it isn't needed in modern scuba valves - but some habits die hard.

Bjorn

 

[RJP]

My pet peeves:

Don't drink and dive

and

Stay hydrated (whatever that is)

You seem conflicted. Do you WANT to drink and dive... or not.

 

[NAM001]

Females don’t know their limit more than males. They are perhaps more willing to accept imposed limitations than men, but certainly they don’t know the limitations any better. And if you think males are bad (which you suggest) then by the same thought process, what should one expect of a young male whose willingness to take risk makes dad look like grandma. This sounds like the "everyone’s kids do drug but mine". The skills taught should be the same. The difference is the acceptance issue and perception of risk by those who think they are invincible. I believe the OW courses do PROVIDE THE SKILLS NEEDED TO SURVIVE. In 60 ft of water max. and that is it. So yes it is a training permit in regards to any other diving environment. With your ow card you train on your buoyancy and trim. You train on being a good buddy, you train on recognizing hazards in gear, set up and water skills. You train on becoming one with the water. As far as skills go the OW provides the majority of the water skills needed for master diver. The OW course does not provide competence. That is what is learned with experience with hours of trial and error that the class can not provide in the time given, to make it work for you. When you become competent with the skills you move on to AOW and take your full functioning OW mastered skills to an AOW environment. In the military we had something called practical factors. It was a check off sheet of your demonstrated abilities. Many of these abilities were sea going items. For those who did not have a chance to go to sea for a few years the rules allowed to have these abilities signed off if the person was believed to have the ability to do it afforded the training and opportunity. Hence most got promoted solely on a time line rather than a proven and documented qualification progress. The OW course is no different. If you can show rudimentary buoyancy skills you are OW passed but the possession of that OW cert does not make you qualified to take AOW if good,,, barely minimum OW skills are required to take the course. I will give the benefit of the doubt that the majority of those on SB who teach are not those who cut corners for that sake of making a buck and paying your rent. Reality is that there are many out there who do the absolute minimum to provide a cert and cover their legal backsides while doing it. Many of you out there have had to either dive with or try to further train the product of those instructors,, so please do not think that I am bashing the instructors that train to produce a quality product and not quantity.

Why?

There are plenty of smart, mature teens that can out dive adults. Since they are exposed to the same risk, why would a different level of skill be required?

If your going to discriminate, I would do male vs. female (the females tend to know their limits better than youngish males).

In the end, the OW course should provide you the skills needed to survive, right now its a training permit. Scary for everyone.

 

[Robert Gillcash]

I tell my students at the beginning of class one that I am not actually going to teach them how to be scuba divers. What I AM going to do, is teach them, to the best of my abilities, not to die (while scuba diving). And in that process, not to kill your buddy, who will be me until the end of the course!
They all quickly agree this is a good idea.
Then, I compare their training to a Martial Arts class. i.e. when you start a Karate class, the first day you're there in your shorts and t-shirt, looking around saying to yourself "I hope they don't kill me!". After about class three, the Sensei hands you a gi and a white belt. You've shown him that you can walk onto the dojo floor and not trip over your own feet and fall down and break your nose. Now you are ready to start learning.
That's sort of what it's like at the end of the scuba class. Now you are ready to start learning, to start really developing your skills and deciding what path you want to take on your scuba journey.
I try to teach them good habits. Be safe and thoughtful about what you do. Expand your circle of awareness with proper training. And get out and dive!

 

[NAM001]

sorry scott

proof reading is not a strong point of mine

 

[Bob DBF]

What existed before the class?

Well I just read "The New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving" and the documentation that came with the tank and reg. The only time I had a buddy was when we practiced buddy breathing on the double hose. You made your own class, or in my case my dad made sure I knew the book and could do the exercises. His interest in SCUBA lapsed but mine did not. I did run across another kid that dived and we did some diving togather, but most of my dives were solo.

As I met more divers, I picked up more skills from them and the "Navy Diving Manual". There were OW classes, but if you were already diving there was no pressure to take a class. In 1980 there was only one shop that would fill my tanks so I took a PADI/NAUI OW Class to get a C-card.



Bob
------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Females don’t know their limit more than males. They are perhaps more willing to accept imposed limitations than men, but certainly they don’t know the limitations any better. And if you think males are bad (which you suggest) then by the same thought process, what should one expect of a young male whose willingness to take risk makes dad look like grandma. This sounds like the "everyone’s kids do drug but mine". The skills taught should be the same. The difference is the acceptance issue and perception of risk by those who think they are invincible. I believe the OW courses do PROVIDE THE SKILLS NEEDED TO SURVIVE. In 60 ft of water max. and that is it. So yes it is a training permit in regards to any other diving environment. With your ow card you train on your buoyancy and trim. You train on being a good buddy, you train on recognizing hazards in gear, set up and water skills. You train on becoming one with the water. As far as skills go the OW provides the majority of the water skills needed for master diver. The OW course does not provide competence. That is what is learned with experience with hours of trial and error that the class can not provide in the time given, to make it work for you. When you become competent with the skills you move on to AOW and take your full functioning OW mastered skills to an AOW environment. In the military we had something called practical factors. It was a check off sheet of your demonstrated abilities. Many of these abilities were sea going items. For those who did not have a chance to go to sea for a few years the rules allowed to have these abilities signed off if the person was believed to have the ability to do it afforded the training and opportunity. Hence most got promoted solely on a time line rather than a proven and documented qualification progress. The OW course is no different. If you can show rudimentary buoyancy skills you are OW passed but the possession of that OW cert does not make you qualified to take AOW if good,,, barely minimum OW skills are required to take the course. I will give the benefit of the doubt that the majority of those on SB who teach are not those who cut corners for that sake of making a buck and paying your rent. Reality is that there are many out there who do the absolute minimum to provide a cert and cover their legal backsides while doing it. Many of you out there have had to either dive with or try to further train the product of those instructors,, so please do not think that I am bashing the instructors that train to produce a quality product and not quantity.

1) There are way too many scientific studies out there showing not only do males engage in more risk taking, but their perception of risk is different. I have a link below of you want to read up.

2) The state of the skills from a typical OW is deplorable in my opinion. It should provide a basic set of competencies, not a learners permit. It used to do this, it has been watered down. I did it in 1978 and then again in 2005, the difference was scary. A couple of students in the 2005 struggled severely just swimming a couple of laps in the pool. The class was about 1/2 of the length of the original class. That's my opinion, everyone has their own.

3) I made the post about male vs female in reply to the idea of having one class for those under 18 vs over 18. Both are rather absurd, my apologies if you took it literally. If you don't have the basic competencies, you should not be diving on your own but under the supervision of someone who is trained to watch out for you.


http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/1/33.full.pdf

 

[GrimSleeper]

Also - another myth I hear frequently....

"Open your valve all the way - and then turn it back an eight to a quarter turn - to prevent damaging the valve or freezing it open..."

Meh - it's a lousy idea. It tends to lead to confusion about the valve status - and it isn't needed in modern scuba valves - but some habits die hard.

Bjorn

I dunno - I started opening all my valves all the way for exactly the reasons you give, then found one stuck open while I was doing a shutdown (drill, fortunately, not the real thing). I actually managed to break the knob clean off trying to close the valve, and I'm no superman...

 

[RJP]

I dunno - I started opening all my valves all the way for exactly the reasons you give, then found one stuck open while I was doing a shutdown (drill, fortunately, not the real thing). I actually managed to break the knob clean off trying to close the valve, and I'm no superman...

A result of someone opening it too forcefully (often) and/or not maintaining it properly over time. Not a result of simply opening it all the way and failing to turn it back a bit.

 

[AfterDark]

Where a shore entry point has a drop off ie water is 3 ft deep till about 30 ft out and dropps off to 50 ft. Prior to having a bcd you had to have your fins on in case you walked off the ledge. If you were not weight correct you would plunge to the bottom with no propulsion and your only option was to drop your weight belt. That does not exoist any more cause witht eh bcd you just dink to your shoulders adn float. so now instead of wearing clumbersome fins trying to walk on an unknown bottom you can make the walk to 4 ft water in your boots and put on your fins in the water knowing you have your bcd to support you.

Ok got that, actually happen to me with a borrowed BCD that didn't inflate as fast as my own so I dropped my weights. Funny thing was I was putting on my fins when I slipped off the rock I was on into 30fsw!