PADI temp card question

[Quero]

That's good to know.

Notification of the cert will be pretty much instant as soon as the shop processes the online pic, so even if you don't get the temp document by email before you get to your destination, the resort at the destination will be able to access her record almost immediately after the PIC is sent in. I think you'll be okay. But as somebody else said, be the squeeky wheel and keep phoning the dive shop issuing the cert. Even if the owners are out of town, the staff can phone them to let them know that you've been insistently calling, and the moment they get back they can make this their top priority.

 

[Colliam7]

We called a few times and received a different answer each time, this morning it was the owners are out of town and will back tomorrow. All the different answers do not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about everything. Now that i know it may be normal for the shop owners to do submit the info I feel a little better.

Sorry,this is NOT normal, it is NOT acceptable, and I would call PADI tomorrow to report the shop - as incompetent, if nothing else. These kinds of calls to PADI do get action.

The INSTRUCTOR is responsible for completing the PIC, AND providing you with a Temporary card. If the shop elects to do online PICs, fine. But, there is simply no excuse for a delay of this sort. If the shop owners hold onto the responsibility for submitting the PIC Online, then they need to get their act together and do it, not delay you.

I say this as an Instructor, working in a shop where we do some PIC Online submissions and some paper submissions. We have delegated responsibility for PIC Online submissions to the individual Instructors, primarily to avoid this kind of situation. This is simply 'piss poor' customer service. It should not be rewarded with any repeat business.

 

[Karibelle]

Colliam7, I think the OP said that he had told his instructor this all needed to be done by the 11th. It's the 9th. Maybe we could hold off lynching the shop just yet?

I process all the PICs at our shop, and you know, sometimes things get in the way. And in this case, it's entirely possible that TPTB have a plan to meet this student's needs within his timeframe.

another 2 cents.

 

[Quero]

Kari, for the timeframe, yeah, there's still time, which is why I said I think they'll probably be okay. However, if it was going to take five or six days to process the cert, the student diver shouldn't have been told that the processing would be done the following day. Most of the time good customer service is a question of creating reasonable expectations rather than making promises that may not be kept. When promises are made and broken, and then the customer is given a series of excuses as to what happened and more promises are made only to be subsequently broken, that constitutes "piss-poor customer service." There's a big difference between saying a shop needs to improve its customer service and lynching. I think the customer is in the right here when he says he's not feeling "warm and fuzzy" towards the shop, and the shop is in the wrong. Now they have to make it right and reassure the customer that they're indeed a good shop to trade with.

 

[JohnoAU]

As the customer had made the instructor aware they had a very short time frame, why wasnt the temp card given to the customer as soon as they had finished the course, anything less just appears to be bad customer service and asking for trouble.

 

[DevonDiver]

Sorry,this is NOT normal, it is NOT acceptable, and I would call PADI tomorrow to report the shop - as incompetent, if nothing else. These kinds of calls to PADI do get action.

PADI standard for PIC submission is 7 days.... is it not?

PADI Instructor Manual 2013

Within seven days of a student finishing all course requirements, the certifying instructor who completed the final open water training dive or the last performance requirement of courses without dives, must:

1. Submit a PIC (envelope or online*), or the appropriate application to your PADI Office. Exception: If delay is caused by the student diver. *Only submit PIC Online for PADI Rebreather Diver and Tec CCR courses.

2. Issue either a temporary or permanent certification card to the student.

Issue certification if the student diver has met course requirements and any agreed-upon financial arrangements.
Do not withhold a certification as a means of settling personal disputes.

I'm guessing PADI wouldn't be interested, or view it as incompetent, unless the shop/instructor was breaching that standard.

The standards are odd though - because in most instances, it is the shop that will acquire the online PIC credits/PADI materials, not the individual instructors. So it will be the shop that completes the PIC application - although the shop can delegate access to their account to any staff they choose (in this case, they obviously didn't delegate that).

To the OP: complaining to PADI about not receiving your temp card is fruitless unless 7 days have expired since the course ended.

---------- Post added May 10th, 2013 at 11:51 AM ----------

As the customer had made the instructor aware they had a very short time frame, why wasnt the temp card given to the customer as soon as they had finished the course, anything less just appears to be bad customer service and asking for trouble.

It's self-explanatory - the owners are away and they are the ones with access to the PADI online account (where certifications are processed). If the instructor had not been given the log-in details for that account, he'd be unable to process anything.

If the instructor were a temp/freelance... or a new employee... then there might be some justification why the owners hadn't given him the log-in to their PADI account. Otherwise, it might be considered an inefficient operational process to have not delegated that authorization to staff member, to process certs in the owner's absence.

There are times when I cannot process PICs within the standard 7 days. As a freelancer, I am sometimes working in areas without internet, or unable to purchase PIC credits due to that same reason. I explain that to students in advance. When I process the certification online, if the student has departed, I simply print the temp card, sign it, then scan and email to the student. Not ideal... but sometimes the situation dictates that.

 

[Quero]

I explain that to students in advance.

I think this is the key missing element in this story. The explanation you give is good customer service--creating reasonable expectations.

If the instructor were a temp/freelance... or a new employee... then there might be some justification why the owners hadn't given him the log-in to their PADI account.
....
As a freelancer, I am sometimes working in areas without internet, or unable to purchase PIC credits due to that same reason.

I have paper PICs for the cases in which I'm at a remote location with no internet, and also for cases when I hire a freelancer to whom I don't want to give access to my online account with PADI.

 

[Karibelle]

Quero, I agree with you. And while I think the instructor did a poor job of setting expectations with the student (i.e. in promising it would be done immediately when it that wasn't within his control), I think today will tell as to whether the shop also did a poor job. Trying to see it from the side of the person who does process the PICs, who may have been told "she needs it by the 11th" and thought okay great, I'll do it on Friday when I get back.

Looking forward to a successful resolution on behalf of the OP!

kari

---------- Post added May 10th, 2013 at 06:34 AM ----------

If the instructor were a temp/freelance... or a new employee... then there might be some justification why the owners hadn't given him the log-in to their PADI account. Otherwise, it might be considered an inefficient operational process to have not delegated that authorization to staff member, to process certs in the owner's absence.

Isn't a fairly new feature of the PADI site that a store can provide access to the online PIC portion of their account only? That is, I believe until recently if you had access to process PICs, you had access to the entire PADI account. Many shops don't want to relinquish control of that and have any instructors poking around in their PADI business, whether freelance, new employee, old salt or anyone.

 

[tbrix]

It sounds like you are getting the run around. Your best bet might be to contact the shop that you are planning on diving with in the keys. Explain to them your situation and they should be able to look it up for you online through the system. I know that PADI has all of their stuff online and it isnt hard to verify with the other agencies either. If for some reason the local shop in the keys cant verify your c-card then you might want to call the agency that you tried to obtain certification through.

In our shop the instructors dont do their own paperwork and filing. The shop manager does that for us.

Sorry you are dealing with a situation like this, but the best advice i can give you at this point would be to contact the local shop you are planning to dive with in the keys directly, BEFORE you get into town and see if they can verify things through their system. It might be a easy way to bypass the shop that you are currently having issues with

 

[FIST]

As of today, still nothing. It is not a matter of another shop looking it up because nothing has been submitted in the first place. Of all the promised call backs I still haven't recieved any so I went into the shop today and they said the owners (the only ones there who submit the info to padi) just got back into Mexico so they have Internet again (they said they were in the middle of the ocean, which I guess is believable for scuba shop owners).

Seems like a poor way to run a business when only one person can do something and they need to work on setting expections. At this point there really isn't anything I can do. The other shop in the area is SSI so padi may be losing business too.

funny thing is I mailed my paper PIC card (i did my cert as a class through school) on tues and my name shows up in padi system already lol