Choosing a bc is a pain.

[Dwhite213]

My intentions of this thread wasn't to discuss the benefits of one or the other, but to find out if I should try to get a multitask bc or get one for rec and another later for tech.

I went to the lds today to try out a few things. I've tried a black ice, balance, and a bpw. The bpw was the owners and wasn't properly adjusted. My first stage kept hitting me in the back of the head. I lowered the tank and it got a little better. Tried using the crotch strap, but it still bumped me some. Maybe the shoulder straps needed to be adjusted.

Other than that I did like the bpw. Used no weights in the pool with a rash guard and sunk easily compared to the balance where I sunk slowly and had to kick some.

Any thoughts on getting more head room out of it?

 

[ams511]

It takes a bit of adjustment in order to get a BP/W to fit properly. That is probably why the owner did not want to adjust his to fit you. Once adjusted, the fit us usually better than with a BC. Another issue could be the plate, they are not one-size-fits-all anymore, they do come in different sizes. As far as sinking easily, BCs are positively buoyant until weights are added, BP/W are negatively buoyant. So you will use less weight when diving.

 

[Dwhite213]

He was wanting to sell that rig, but he had to leave so I didn't bother adjusting it. Especially without permission. I new that it wouldn't be as buoyant as a bc, but it was more than I expected. I'm like a rock when it comes to floating, so weight hasn't ever been an issue.

What does the different size plates change? How far the tank is off your back? Or width/length?

 

[Seefourdc]

For even a marginally skilled diver, there is no problem staying horizontal in a jacket bc.

I somewhat disagree with this. It's not that staying horizontal is the problem, it's that staying horizontal with little effort/energy is more the problem. If you have less buoyant legs for ex. (I do) it makes it far more difficult in a jacket where the only place to effectively put your weights is in the quick release at the waist. The modular nature of a BP/W by design allows for a lot more flexibility in where you put your weights because your weight pockets aren't predecided for you. I can buy weight pockets I can put anywhere on a BP/W, but there are a lot less options on a jacket. On top of that you already bought pockets you can't move, so if I buy more pockets I essentially paid the cost of one very expensive weight quick release system I cannot use and have no control over.

I actually get it though. The jacket is the nanny state version of diving. All of the thinking is taken out of the equation, which by my own observation is probably pretty helpful with a lot of new divers who already look very task overloaded. I imagine it's just outright easier to throw people in a jacket since you don't have to explain anything. "Put this on, weights go here - into the water with you." I think for someone who wants to get educated and has any interest in being involved in their diving process a jacket doesn't make sense. You have no options, except to buy a new BC if you want to do something new your original jacket wasn't suited for. That's a bummer to me.

My position is from someone who is very new but all of this makes sense with very little experience in the water, from reading here, and listening to others experience.

 

[TSandM]

You should be able to adjust the placement of the tank in the cambands to keep the first stage out of the back of your head. Another approach would be to use an STA (single tank adapter) which moves the tank away from your back.

Plate size doesn't really affect what you are complaining about. Plate size affects where the top of the plate rides, if the waist strap is at your waist. This is only really important, with a single tank, with people who are really very tall or very small. If you are tiny, a standard plate may be almost longer than your back; if you are very tall, putting the waist strap where it is comfortable may have the top of the plate well below the top of your back.

With double tanks, plate size is a bit more important, because you do not have the freedom to move the plate and tanks to the same degree. The tanks are bolted to your plate, and the valves MUST be where you can reach them, so the location of the top of the plate is largely set. If the plate is too short, your waistband will be up around the bottom of your ribs; if it is too long, the edges of the plate may dig into your hips, and the waist band will be too low.

The vast majority of reasonable normal-sized people can use a standard plate.

 

[Dwhite213]

Thanks. I keep my tank low in the straps, and still have problems. People have commented more than once about the placement of my tank. I think I'm going to order one from DSS and get his opinion and solution. I really liked the setup with the oxycheq (slim, light, not much dive weight). I think they have a STA on them, but I'm not sure. I know it had the travel backplate. I actually thought about the STA, but I was hoping to resolve the issue with adjustment. This "inexpensive" bc is starting to add up. Oh well I don't mind as long as I get quality equipment.

 

[halocline]

Thanks. I keep my tank low in the straps, and still have problems. People have commented more than once about the placement of my tank. I think I'm going to order one from DSS and get his opinion and solution. I really liked the setup with the oxycheq (slim, light, not much dive weight). I think they have a STA on them, but I'm not sure. I know it had the travel backplate. I actually thought about the STA, but I was hoping to resolve the issue with adjustment. This "inexpensive" bc is starting to add up. Oh well I don't mind as long as I get quality equipment.

Most oxycheq wings are designed to be used without a STA, but you could use one too. It's almost always possible to adjust the harness and tank so that the first stage does not hit you in the head when you look up, except in cases where you have a DIN reg on a yoke tank and you're using an adapter. It might be that you simply need to put more room in the shoulder so that the plate sits lower on your back. That's not uncommon at all.

When you say you 'tried out' a few of these things I assume you mean you dove with, presumably in the pool, right?

The oxycheq 'travel' plate is, I believe, kind of a "I" shaped thing, right? I've never used one of those, but basically one of the real benefits of the BP/W system is the ballast on the back and the wide spread point of contact. I have a feeling that the travel plate might compromise both. If the wing is a machV wing, those are excellent. The harness should be plain webbing and you would definitely have to adjust it to fit your size before evaluating. It's a bit of a process, but when it's done once, it's done.

DSS systems are also excellent, not the least expensive around, but very well designed and the customer service is outstanding.

 

[BDSC]

I actually get it though. The jacket is the nanny state version of diving. All of the thinking is taken out of the equation,

Nope. You don't get it at all.

 

[scubafanatic]

I somewhat disagree with this. It's not that staying horizontal is the problem, it's that staying horizontal with little effort/energy is more the problem. If you have less buoyant legs for ex. (I do) it makes it far more difficult in a jacket where the only place to effectively put your weights is in the quick release at the waist. The modular nature of a BP/W by design allows for a lot more flexibility in where you put your weights because your weight pockets aren't predecided for you. I can buy weight pockets I can put anywhere on a BP/W, but there are a lot less options on a jacket. On top of that you already bought pockets you can't move, so if I buy more pockets I essentially paid the cost of one very expensive weight quick release system I cannot use and have no control over.

I actually get it though. The jacket is the nanny state version of diving. All of the thinking is taken out of the equation, which by my own observation is probably pretty helpful with a lot of new divers who already look very task overloaded. I imagine it's just outright easier to throw people in a jacket since you don't have to explain anything. "Put this on, weights go here - into the water with you." I think for someone who wants to get educated and has any interest in being involved in their diving process a jacket doesn't make sense. You have no options, except to buy a new BC if you want to do something new your original jacket wasn't suited for. That's a bummer to me.

My position is from someone who is very new but all of this makes sense with very little experience in the water, from reading here, and listening to others experience.

Don't get confused by the haste to label things, 'jacket' BC's are those with aircells that wrap around the waist area (aka poodle jackets) and there are those BC's with rear aircells (like my first BC a circa 2001 Zeagle Ranger, which I still have but haven't dove in forever.) A rear aircell BC, like my old Ranger, will achieve all the same basic advantages of a 'tech' BPW set up with respect to trim in the water, and yes, it does have some fluffy back padding which the BPW crowd can't stomach (although 'tech' divers probably represent less than 1 % of the diving population). My main issues with my Zeagle are the wierd rip-cord weight release system (which works fine, just not how I like my weight systems these days) and the almost complete inability to modify/customize the BC as I gained dive experience and discovered what I like and what best works for me. The Ranger did it's basic job, I gained valuable dive experience, outgrew the capabilities of the Ranger, and moved on to designing my own custom scuba gear, using DiveRite TransPac XT harnesses/Oxycheq 'Extreme' wings as my 'foundations' upon which to build my custom gear.

Main take away: for the average recreational diver, from a bouyancy/trim performance perspective, there's not a lot of difference between a hardcore BPW vs a conventional BC with a rear aircell, the main annoyance with a conventional BC was the almost total inability to modify/ 'grow' the system beyond it's basic beginner design, it's a 100% take-it-or-leave-it-as-is concept, which becomes increasingly frustrationg as you gain dive experience.

 

[Dwhite213]

Most oxycheq wings are designed to be used without a STA, but you could use one too. It's almost always possible to adjust the harness and tank so that the first stage does not hit you in the head when you look up, except in cases where you have a DIN reg on a yoke tank and you're using an adapter. It might be that you simply need to put more room in the shoulder so that the plate sits lower on your back. That's not uncommon at all.

When you say you 'tried out' a few of these things I assume you mean you dove with, presumably in the pool, right?

The oxycheq 'travel' plate is, I believe, kind of a "I" shaped thing, right? I've never used one of those, but basically one of the real benefits of the BP/W system is the ballast on the back and the wide spread point of contact. I have a feeling that the travel plate might compromise both. If the wing is a machV wing, those are excellent. The harness should be plain webbing and you would definitely have to adjust it to fit your size before evaluating. It's a bit of a process, but when it's done once, it's done.

DSS systems are also excellent, not the least expensive around, but very well designed and the customer service is outstanding.

Yes I tried all the systems listed in the lds's pool. I was thinking that since he was a shorter man that the bc might be riding a little high on me. I did adjust the crotch strap out to accommodate my longer body, but it didn't make much difference. The travel bp is shaped like a reinforced I. After doing some research on building one I might go back and adjust it out. I have a few more questions for him. He was wanting a little much for it, but idk if that included his spare air that was attached to the unit.