Questions about Dual bladder wings
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TONY CHANEY
Contributor
My God why does it take so much to state one thing. BC with drysuit or wet suit with a double inflation wing...done and no worries. Please explain a balanced rig with double steel 120's plus a steel 45 for deco at 170 fsw. You simply can't swin that up! What is the lift of you drysuit? You don't know because it is not listed because it is not designed for a BC..although it can help out. Why not stack the deck in your favor and just go with the double bladder wing? Has anyone ever hear of a dive accident happening because they had a double bladder? None that I have ever heard of!
PfcAJ
Contributor
Why would you use a steel deco bottle? Just use aluminum 40s or 80s if you need the extra gas. No sense in diving overweighted if you don't need it.
Double al80s and an al80 stage give you almost as much gas as cave filled 104s. No need for massive backgas tanks in OW.
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Why not stack the deck in youir favor by using all Al 80's so that you CAN swim them up, no matter what?
Why do you need the extra time the 120's will allow? In deep ocean, I see the extra time as creating deco that can become so long that this may prevent you from being able to deal with dangerous changes in the weather, or, in being able to help a buddy that get's hurt.
TONY CHANEY
Contributor
P-valve failure when diving any wing?
Too funny!
Garth
Contributor
Maybe not where the root cause was inflation of the double wing but of all the accidents that occur I'm sure someone was using a double wing it just wasn't the source or contributing factor.
Who needs a wing anyway, I hardly use mine anymore now that I dive a rebreather... ;-)
TONY CHANEY
Contributor
The real kick in the ass news is we could have saved thousands and thousands of dollars if we would have known we could have done all our dives with Al 80's! Hell by using Al 80's it sounds like you don't even need a BC, less deco time, able to help out your buddy and able to deal with dangerous changes in the weather.
DevonDiver
N/A
Sure... here is the "official" explanation:
" For ocean, aluminum 80's are the tank of choice. If more gas is needed, take an aluminum stage, but don't risk your life being over weighted at the beginning of the dive. The buoyancy characteristics of aluminum, especially when using helium , are such that a weight belt and or canister light will provide the necessary ballast which can be dropped in an emergency, making the rig only reasonably negative when full, neutral when empty, but swimable by dropping the weight. In cave, steel must be used with a drysuit and they must be negative enough to allow the diver to stay down in a low on gas emergency. There is nothing worse than being too light to stay off the ceiling while low on gas and then struggling. For this reason, the rig must be balanced to a no gas situation prior to cave use, and weighted accordingly."
By George Irvine
In short... balanced rig is not using "double steel 120's plus a steel 45 for deco at 170fsw", unless paired with redundant buoyancy in the guise of a drysuit. Simple really...
I believe the issue of run-away ascent is very realistic - although I cannot claim knowledge of a specific accident report to substantiate that credible concern. Likewise, the issues surrounding the typical pairing of double bladder wings with bungee restraints is also well debated - and forms distinct advice in GUE training. My assumption is that GUE base much, if not all, of it's approach on the basis of actual accident or near-miss analysis... as is typical for cave/technical diving equipment/approach philosophy development.
Devon said - "I believe the issue of run-away ascent is very realistic - although I cannot claim knowledge of a specific accident report to substantiate that credible concern. Likewise, the issues surrounding the typical pairing of double bladder wings with bungee restraints is also well debated - and forms distinct advice in GUE training. My assumption is that GUE base much, if not all, of it's approach on the basis of actual accident or near-miss analysis... as is typical for cave/technical diving equipment/approach philosophy development."[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, how is a double bladder with the LPI hose detached any more likely to have a runaway ascent than a dry suit with the inflator hose attached?
Has anyone contrasted the risk of thermal injury diving a dry suit when the surface air temperature is 110 F, the water temperature is 95 F at 20 feet and 80 F on the bottom, versus the risk of diving a dual bladder wing? I don't know of any dual bladder mishaps, but I have seen a dry suit thermal injury in warm waters. My experience may be limited, compared to those who frequently dive dry suits. I'm curious if there is any statistical data to support choosing the dry suit over the dual bladder when it's freaking hot out.
Just out of curiosity, how is a double bladder with the LPI hose detached any more likely to have a runaway ascent than a dry suit with the inflator hose attached?
Has anyone contrasted the risk of thermal injury diving a dry suit when the surface air temperature is 110 F, the water temperature is 95 F at 20 feet and 80 F on the bottom, versus the risk of diving a dual bladder wing? I don't know of any dual bladder mishaps, but I have seen a dry suit thermal injury in warm waters. My experience may be limited, compared to those who frequently dive dry suits. I'm curious if there is any statistical data to support choosing the dry suit over the dual bladder when it's freaking hot out.
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