Hydro Atlantic Incident 9-30-2012

[deepstops]

CO deaths I'm aware of - Double fatality in the Mexican cenotes about 5 years ago, fatality in the Tampa area about 15 years ago, reported Cozumel cave fatality last year, and the Maldives incident.


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[DandyDon]

CO deaths I'm aware of - Double fatality in the Mexican cenotes about 5 years ago, fatality in the Tampa area about 15 years ago, reported Cozumel cave fatality last year, and the Maldives incident.

Another in Baja this year, but most probably go undiscovered. Checking for carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) in all dive fatalities just doesn't happen. Most destinations don't have the equipment. What studies that have been done show that 3-5% of tanks test above 10 ppm CO, entirely too high, but the vast majority are not tested.

This has nothing to do with this thread really, other than it's prudent to test tanks - with O2 & CO being two big risks, both easy to test.

 

[peterbj7]

I didn't know about all those confirmed CO deaths. As you say, they're probably just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[danvolker]

Another in Baja this year, but most probably go undiscovered. Checking for carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) in all dive fatalities just doesn't happen. Most destinations don't have the equipment. What studies that have been done show that 3-5% of tanks test above 10 ppm CO, entirely too high, but the vast majority are not tested.

This has nothing to do with this thread really, other than it's prudent to test tanks - with O2 & CO being two big risks, both easy to test.

To me, the CO issue is mostly about choosing what dive shop will fill my tanks.....Maybe easy for me since primarily I use either of two top notch dive shops, both with impeccable fill systems.....

i would have an interest in the stats on CO content by location....Florida....Caribbean islands, pacific islands, etc....where is it most important to get analysis for CO ?

 

[Ayisha]

I didn't know about all those confirmed CO deaths. As you say, they're probably just the tip of the iceberg.

And let's not forget the two CO deaths in Roatan leading to the abolishment of the PADI Quarterly Air Testing program.

There are many more unconfirmed ones as well that have all the markings of CO poisoning. But if the tanks and/or the COHb (carboxyhemoglobin) in the blood are not tested, and they usually aren't, then they're hard to confirm.

 

[DandyDon]

That's right, Ayisha. The resort promised a full report, but then their lawyers worked out a deal better for business, removing threads from here and the CCV forum as well as guaranteeing the family's silence. Even when CO is proven, the stories are hidden as bad for business. Most locations don't have the ability to test blood for CO tho, if they fly a sample to a lab that does - they don't release results openly, and any testing done when the remains are returned to the States would probably be too late.

I didn't know about all those confirmed CO deaths. As you say, they're probably just the tip of the iceberg.

Your experience was a damned close call. CO tank testers are $300+, probably less for you, easy to use & maintain, and after that experience - I'd think you'd want to.

To me, the CO issue is mostly about choosing what dive shop will fill my tanks.....Maybe easy for me since primarily I use either of two top notch dive shops, both with impeccable fill systems.....

i would have an interest in the stats on CO content by location....Florida....Caribbean islands, pacific islands, etc....where is it most important to get analysis for CO ?

Florida has the strictest rules in the US altho they still allow 10 ppm, and if a shop allows that past their fileters - you have to wonder what else is getting in the tanks? Do your favorite shops have inline CO monitors with auto shut offs? Really, the only way to be sure is test with your own kit, as anyone can have a bad day at work huh? My home bud thought I was too paranoid about this issue until we went to NM for some practice dives and our tanks there tested 5 ppm. He was with me in Coz when I refused to dive tanks with 17 and turned the boat too.

As far as the Caribbean, Pacific, and the rest of the world other than US, Canada, UK, Australia, and and maybe the EU - you are totally on your own. Very few compressors test at all, you don't know which do and how good they are, and warmer climates have more cases of overworked compressors burning their own lubricating oil to produce CO internally.

 

[The Chairman]

where is it most important to get analysis for CO ?

That's easy... where ever you have YOUR tank filled! CO poisoning can happen even when your shop puts out NO CO with their air. How's it possible? It's too stinking easy and it's why I'm not a big fan of Partial Pressure Blending. My tanks were borrowed for a couple of days and they got back to me pretty empty. I took to a shop I really trusted and they filled them with my usual 32. I went for a dive off of Venice Beach and got, really, really sick. I had no clue that it was the air: I thought I was coming down with the flu. I felt so bad that I almost didn't do that second dive and I went in late. Immediately, I felt so bad that I would take a breath and vomit and was repeating this. The light bulb went off and I realized that I was being poisoned by the air in my tank. I called my shop quickly to give them a dire warning, and they were adamant about the fact that I was the ONLY one who had complained and they fill a lot of tanks. I was pretty lucky that these were only 20ft deep dives looking for Meg teeth.

Then it hit me. Pure O² was introduced to a tank that while it was marked as being O² cleaned, had been contaminated with oil vapor by another shop. While most instructors will teach that this is a way to have an explosion, that's simply not true. It's a sure fire way to produce CO and you'll never know unless you test for it, or simply get sick as I did. I haven't made a regimen of testing my tanks for CO, but it's not a bad idea. However, I do avoid PP blending like the plague. Blended or membrane for me. I haven't had a problem since.

 

[deepstops]

Florida has the strictest rules in the US altho they still allow 10 ppm, and if a shop allows that past their fileters - you have to wonder what else is getting in the tanks? Do your favorite shops have inline CO monitors with auto shut offs? Really, the only way to be sure is test with your own kit, as anyone can have a bad day at work huh?

The statement is true and the regulation was created in response to the fatality I referred to in my earlier post. That being said, I don't think the regulation is enforced.




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[peterbj7]

I'm not sure what the laws are in the UK but I'd be very surprised if they were any more lax than the US. The only bad fill I ever heard of in the UK was when there was too much water in the tank.

Getting CO in a tank is extremely easy, especially in urban areas or anywhere close to traffic. I saw a compressor installed on a private island here in Belize, and it wasn't a budget operation. The diesel motor was completely separated from the compressor and in another building. Nonetheless they didn't sufficiently allow for changes in wind direction, and under certain wind conditions the exhaust could be smelled across the entire island. The only way to overcome that problem was check prevailing air quality and only pump when it was adequate. I have stood on a dock here, one housing a big compressor, and smelled diesel exhaust wafting over from the next dock. They adopt the same precaution. My own electric-powered compressors were housed in the middle of a field some 30yds from the nearest road, and most passing traffic was electric golf carts anyway. Nonetheless I could occasionally smell exhaust. The Bauer triple filter system I used, the best in the business, is not capable of filtering out CO - you have to ensure it doesn't get in there in the first place. It is not an easy problem to deal with.

 

[billt4sf]

If there is any reader of Scubaboard going through this thread, that is NOT Nitrox certified.....which would be surprising to me unless they are a brand new diver.....then WOW! What are you waiting for. Learning Nitrox is so incredibly easy that it really should have been covered in your initial open water course, but unfortunately, it is a modularized system , and you have to take the short and simple Nitrox course, as a separate class.

Take the course....pay attention to the part about analyzing your tanks. Most divers have the sense to check and see if there is air in their tank before jumping into the water. When you understand Nitrox, the checking percentage is just as simple, and only takes a moment. The boats in any good destination where Nitrox use is commonplace, will make this easy for you also. .

I test all of my tanks for CO, but haven't been testing my Air tanks for O2. I said I would last trip, but didn't. Took my own analyzer and yellow tap, and should have.

DanVolker: I am (reading this thread and not nitrox certified). It's hard for me to understand what is being said. I THINK that there are a couple of considerations:

1) If you dive Nitrox then you better not go below a certain depth or you risk Oxygen poisoning.
2) CO can get into regular air tanks as they are being filled (e.g. the blow-by of another compressor).
3) You can check your tank before jumping in. (I don't recall ever seeing anyone do this on a dive boat or in the shop, maybe I just wasn't aware.)

Can someone tell me if I am understanding?

Here's my immediate question: does any of this matter to a recreational diver (my wife and I) than don't go any deeper than 40' - 60' ? Added caveat: we have dived, and hope to continue to dive, in various parts of the world.

Thanks,

Bill