It's about as wishful as my wanting Christians to be known simply for their love. Altruistic? Yes. Naive? Even more so.
... to my concern, Christians have a far worse track record of practicing what they preach than DIR divers ... but perhaps that's a topic best discussed in The Pub.
Is it? There are both good and bad sides to this and DIR divers use this to their advantage. They assume that a similarly trained DIR diver will act in a similar fashion. In fact, if you look at a DIR Diver's gear, you know where each piece of kit will be. That's part of the selling point of being DIR.
You are confusing equipment with attitude ... and those are two different things. Attitude isn't determined by training or gear configuration ... it's determined by personality. I see no reason to judge one person's motives by another person's actions. I see that as inherently wrong, and one of the major reasons why there's so much conflict and drama in the scuba diving world. That's been true since long before DIR came along, and I see no reason to perpetuate it here.
Any politician worth his salt would have loved the spin in this statement. For those not in the know, the rule was "Don't dive with strokes!" It has since been rephrased by a few, but the thrust of this thread is why people have an tude about DIR. You can deny the past, but that only makes the situation laughable. It's still haunting you. Of course, Bob could really care less what others actually think about him, so the rep may not matter much to him. That's not the point of this thread.
So now you're going to parse my words and leave out whatever doesn't suit your argument? Please don't call me political, Pete ... that's the game you're playing.
Rule #1 is "Don't dive with strokes" ... it goes on to define what a stroke is. Since you want to play word games with me, allow me to print ... in full ... how Mr. Irvine defined the term.
Very simply put, a "stroke" is somebody you don't want to dive with. It is somebody who will cause you problems, or not be any use to you if you have problems. Usually, this is a reflection of the attitude of a stroke, but that can be inherent in the personality of the individual, or others can teach it.
For instance, if somebody is taught that diving is an "every man for himself" sport, that you "can't help somebody deep," that "my gas is my gas," or "know when to leave your buddy," then that is somebody you do not want to be in the water with. Some people are natural strokes, but all too many are created. Unfortunately, people believe best what they hear first, and given the low-level food chain structure of dive instruction, most strokes are man-made, and are then hard to fix.
Obvious strokes are not so bad - you can see them and you know to avoid them. Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration. If you see something that is a complete mess, makes no sense, is less than optimal, or is designed to accommodate some phobia while ignoring all else, you are dealing with a stroke. If the stroke is pontificating about how he can "handle" deep air diving, or obsessing about depth, or appears to be trying to compensate for internal fears, this is an obvious stroke and you merely avoid them.
The really insidious strokes are those who pretend to be squared away, but are in this game for all the wrong reasons. Usually they wish to prove something to themselves or others, or to overcome some internal fears. These tend to try to do things that they are not ready to do, and when something goes wrong, they flee for their lives.
Diving is not an intuitive thing. It is not a natural thing. Natural reactions of human beings on dry land do not work underwater. To be a good diver, you have to control your natural responses, and know that they can only hurt you, not help you. A stroke cannot do that. A stroke is driven by fear, ego, bull**** and self-concern.
As I said, it has nothing to do with "being DIR" ... it has everything to do with "being safe". Nowhere in all of that monologue did George say anything that's specific to DIR.
I find it odd to be in a position of defending Irvine, since I think the man was a chronic sociopath ... at least when he had access to his keyboard. But in this case, everything he said above can apply completely outside the context of DIR ... and I agree with the notion that you shouldn't dive with someone who isn't going to be safety conscious, or who you don't believe you could count on for assistance if it was needed. I find more constructive ways to put it, but I emphasize the exact same concepts to my students at every level I teach.
Like I said: DIR Divers, UTD and GUE are trying to distance themselves from this mentality. That's a step in the right direction if attitudes about DIR are to be changed.
And like I said, in some parts of the world they always have ... you just don't happen to live there.
Perhaps One or two people? Rly? Bob... it's better to admit when something was wrong than to try to blame others. Blame shifting says more about the people who do it than those they are shifting the blame to. (Sorry, I just had to type that.) Denial: not just another river in Egypt! I could go on with these spin statements just like you are doing. Lynn thinks there is a problem with the public's perception. I do too. You can say that it's their problem or you can listen to them, perhaps to change.
The perception exists mainly on the Internet ... where a lot of people have trouble minding their manners because there's no consequence to doing otherwise. I can honestly say that in my 11 years of diving I can think of exactly two DIR-trained individuals who truly lived up to the stereotype. I've run into way more similarly-offensive people who had no DIR training whatsoever. The conclusion I have is that people stereotype because they want to ... they look for reasons to do so, and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
These discussions remind me very much of some of the comments I see certain people make about the deficiencies of those who differ from them politically, racially, or in any number of other ways. I don't have time for that sort of nonsense. I put up with politics and drama all day at work. When I go diving, I want to avoid that sort of thing ... and will avoid the people who bring it up regardless of which agency they trained with or what they're wearing. Likewise, people who want to relax and have a good time I'll seek out ... regardless of which agency they trained with or what they're wearing.
But don't kid yourself, Pete ... ScubaBoard is NOT DIR friendly. If you think it is, go look at all the DIR-trained people who used to post here regularly five or six years ago and ask yourself where they are today ... because they're not here. The last post in the DIR practicioner's forum was nearly a year ago ... and the last new thread created there was way before that. The welcome mat for DIR discussions got pulled from ScubaBoard long ago ... and the DIR forum today is dominated mostly by people who want to complain about it.
And please, Pete ... stop it already with the silly personal attacks ... you're a better man than that.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
