Halcyon Infinity for a new diver?

[lv2dive]

With all this discussion you'd think we were talking about bungied dual bladder wings. There is so little difference between my Halcyon 30 and 40 pound wings I have no idea what the problem is. My Oxycheq 40 lb wing is even smaller than both Halcyon wings. Considering Francis' location (which is NOT the Southern U.S.), and size (which matters when you're offsetting a lot of neoprene if he does indeed dive dry), a 40lb wing is not overkill. I swear some people like to argue for the sake of it. Kate--if you think that the small volume of fabric that may drag due to a slightly larger wing is an issue then you aren't aware of the larger weight swings (usually positive) that people experience. Some of the guys I've been in the water with have larger stomachs than my Eclipse.

I guess I've just dove with Dan one too many times and developed small wing envy.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm discussing one side of a topic. I thought in a fairly non-confrontational non-attacking way. I certainly wasn't calling anyone out or putting them down personally. In the grand scheme of things, I agree that the difference between a 30 and 40 lb wing is not as big of a deal as, say, the BWOD topic. :shocked2: Also agree with rddvet that at this point, it's probably best left as different opinions, and the main thing is that a new diver is getting started down the right path no matter which choice is made!


For the record: Although I may be from the SE - I don't dive here exclusively - relevant to this conversation, I was diving in Canada a little over month ago. Also, I may be blonde but I do understand the concept of the impact of weight swings. By the same token, I've put a few people - including a couple of large guys - in my backup single BP/W which is a 28 or 30 lb DSS wing. So I'm not completely talking out of my :mooner:.

Francis - Enjoy your new kit - we will look forward to a trip/dive report, if you don't mind!!

 

[fisheater]

It's the amount of water displacement when fully inflated. (Which, of course, is also the weight of the amount of water it takes to fill it up.)

 

[Scott L]

All this debating has actually spawned a question... I'm sure it's stupid, but does the wing actually weight 40 or 30 lbs? Or is that the weight it can move when fully inflated?

Well, I just came from the Pub forum so I about to call your question stupid. A 30lb wing provides 30lbs of buoyancy lift underwater (upward of course). The same wing probaly weighs 2lbs top-side...

 

[danvolker]

With all this discussion you'd think we were talking about bungied dual bladder wings. There is so little difference between my Halcyon 30 and 40 pound wings I have no idea what the problem is. My Oxycheq 40 lb wing is even smaller than both Halcyon wings. Considering Francis' location (which is NOT the Southern U.S.), and size (which matters when you're offsetting a lot of neoprene if he does indeed dive dry), a 40lb wing is not overkill. I swear some people like to argue for the sake of it. Kate--if you think that the small volume of fabric that may drag due to a slightly larger wing is an issue then you aren't aware of the larger weight swings (usually positive) that people experience. Some of the guys I've been in the water with have larger stomachs than my Eclipse.

If the diver in question is one with a high skill level, I'd agree that a run-away inflator will not cause a life threatening problem for them on a 100 foot dive. We have seen this happen to new open water divers on S fla boats, where they became polaris missiles....but let's agree this is not the big reason for the OP...before changing issue though, the idea is for the wing to be able to get you neutral and have maybe 5 to 10 pounds of positive lift remaining beyond what is needed at your max depth for a wetsuit dive....10 pounds of lift will not shoot you to the surface uncontrollably ( easy to flare body and slow with this amount of upward pull)....20 to 30 pounds of upward pull can begin to create a missile scenario...

The OP is an brand new diver, so the skill required to deal with a run-away or accidental over inflation, "could" still be missing.....and this does justify NOT putting them in a 40 pound lift wing....and having them AVOID a bug heavy tank that could mean much more air in a wing to compensate for, and much more skill needed to compensate well and maintain trim....

The bigger issue for a skilled diver...probably what we should be discussing here, is what Kate was describing--the room in the wing for air to move around in while you are in the primary depth of your dive--how tilting left or right, any motion of the body in the horizontal plane, will effect the air bubble as it moves around inside the wing in response to the body position....the smaller the wing, the less sudden change in the way the wing effects your trim.....My 18 pound wing provides more of a feeling like I am driving a sports car, a 40 pound wing would feel like a school bus....except, it is worse, because of the over corrrection effect when the bigger air bubble shifts....So, we tell people to choose the smallest wing they can use and still be safely neutral at the deepest depth they will go to....We do NOT choose a bladder size in order to have oour wing become a RAFT at the surface.... Halcyon sells the SURFMAT for this It goes in your mc storage pouch, you can inflate it as an SMB from the bottom or at 10 feet, and then on surfacing, you can use it exactly like a "belly board"

 

[Tortuga68]

Amazing... from a discourse on choosing the appropriate wing lift, to a plug for an unrelated Halcyon product. How does he do it?

 

[danvolker]

Amazing... from a discourse on choosing the appropriate wing lift, to a plug for an unrelated Halcyon product. How does he do it?

Your starting to piss me off. No one who can read will see this as a plug... this is dealing with the perception some divers have that they need to have huge inflation on the surface, to get their head way out of the water, and the reality that bp/wing type bc's are not made to do this--and most divers do not want or care for this....but, those that do want this, are not screwed with a bp/wing, because there is a solution...this being the surfmat....I have not seen ANY other solution for a bp/wing, on the issue of getting your head way up out of the water and comfortable floating or rafting along, like you can get with some of the huge traditional bouyancy compensator vests....
What is your problem with me mentioning exactly the solution ? Do you think I need to answer by carefully NOT mentioning brand names for a solution, even if the solution is rare to see?

 

[vladimir]

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[danvolker]

@##%&^$%&^!!!!!!
And torTUga....., the post IS ABOUT a Halcyon system... it was NOT a generic discussion of wings or bc's...

....How about some reading comprehension to replace your "crusade" against posts intended to help people....

 

[Tortuga68]

Two posts is a crusuade?

I thought the thread was about whether a 30# or 40# wing would suit the OPs needs. I have both Eclipse wings - I don't like the 40, too much airshift for the wet AL80 warm water diving that I do with it; 30# is much better for me, of the two options the OP asked about. Your head doesn't really get any further out of the water either way, since you only get lift from the part of the wing that's below the surface

I don't see any need for the OP to buy an additional flotation device, since he didn't mention anything about needing a huge wing to keep his head out of the water (did anyone?). But thanks for bringing the Halcyon Surf Shuttle (TM) to our attention (I just roll on my back)

 

[FrancisK7]

Explain something to me, if you don't mind.

I have a 30lbs wing, something happens and vest falls into freeflow, filling up.
I have a 40lbs wing, something happens and vest falls into freeflow, filling up.

Either way, I'm pretty sure my turkey's ****ed and I'm rocketing to the surface like superman on Viagra (or Cialis... I wish not to upset your brand preference).

Or am I missing the point of this debate?