Diamond International got knocked off

[DandyDon]

Reminds me of eating up on the hill in Antigua. One cop there sporting an old 686 I think. Shift change the other guy showed up and they handed off the gun.

You'd want to know who cleaned & lubed that weapon, kinda like knowing your reg tech.

Gov Perry wants to invade Mexico. I'm hoping not. Perry: Send U.S. troops to Mexico to fight drug wars - The Washington Post

 

[annlaur]

Who accused you of being?

Guess you used the proverbial "you" in your previous post but I wasn't sure, so just wanted to clarify. FYI, I didn't feel accused in any way, I'd consider it an honor to be Mexican.
.

Mexico has got some of the strictest most severe gun and ammo laws on the planet.

How'd that work for Diamond International?

Those criminals had squirt guns? Oops, nope AK-47s in a country that will put you behind bars for owning a bullet, yet things are so f'd up that the army has to walk around with machine guns in tourist areas.

Let's not blow this out of proportion. One (1) criminal had one (1) AK-47. I never said that gun control would entirely stop the proliferation of guns. I said guns were not widespread in the GENERAL population ; by which I mean regular people who have regular jobs, raise their kids and live a more or less law-abiding life. I'll also include small scale criminals in that category, those who commit petty theft and even robbery but who don't have a gun because it's not that easy to buy.
As for the guns that are available, many come from army stocks (black market from the Balkans, ex-Soviet Union countries and all the wars that have happened in Latin America these past decades). According to Wikipedia, the AK-47 is the most widelyspread weapon in the world and its cheap price (USD300 on the black market) and ability to withstand harsh climatic conditions made it a weapon of choice for the guerillas. The bad guys take what's available, so unless there are more operations Fast and Furious , chances are they won't all be using US semi-automatic firearms anytime soon.

I fail to see your point about the military carrying guns. Isn't that what these guys do year-round, carry guns ? Are you saying there should be no army base or military on Cozumel because it's a tourist destination ?

Don't want to blow your mind, but whatever you do, don't pick up a newspaper and read anything about the 20,000 dead from the drug cartels in Mexico and their machine gunning, out gunning the cops membership.

Check your figures. The death count is now estimated at over 50,000 since the end of 2006.

I guess you don't remember the Hollywood shoot out with the nut jobs with machine guns and armor piercing bullets and cops trying to combat them with 6 shot revolvers? How'd that one work out and what's in cops trunks now?

You're right, I don't.

Nothing beats superior fire power.

As easy as it sounds, "Let's nuke them all" isn't a satisfactory answer to me.

 

[annlaur]

Unless you have magic powers to guarantee it from ever happening again, the correct description is "First occurrence on the island"

the bar has officially been raised

Thanks, I didn't know it meant it would never happen again. "Incident isolé" is a common phrase in French meaning that it rarely happens, hence my mistake. We can't say it was a "First occurrence on the island" either, Por Esto reports another armed robbery happened on the island in 2005, six years ago.

 

[redacted]

Unless you have magic powers to guarantee it from ever happening again, the correct description is "First occurrence on the island"

the bar has officially been raised

Thanks, I didn't know it meant it would never happen again. "Incident isolé" is a common phrase in French meaning that it rarely happens, hence my mistake. We can't say it was a "First occurrence on the island" either, Por Esto reports another armed robbery happened on the island in 2005, six years ago.

The problem is not your English. "Isolated indecent" is a good description of what happened.

 

[cvchief]

I think I'll take the repeated beating over the shooting any day. I've seen that happen in real life, Mexican cops beating someone I knew (not in Cozumel and over 10 years ago), and yes it was scary and horrible. But I am glad these guys didn't have weapons, because in the state they were in (I'm guessing coke and alcohol), I'm pretty sure they would have fired them.

Probably not. Old school beatings seldom end in shootings.

Well, would carrying a gun make them less likely to kick the crap outta me because they are frustrated and tired ? I don't see why it would. Unless carrying a gun makes you less cranky and sleep-deprived but I haven't read any scientific study on the subject
Would they be more likely to shoot me ? Definitely yes (they can't shoot me if they don't have firearms, now can they ?)

Nah, still likely to just get a beating.... They probably will have to account for the bullets. Beatings aren't so much recorded. Cranky and tired doesn't make you want to shoot people, that just creates more stress. 'course the old timers always say a good beating teaches more than a fine any day.

I remember when the wife and I were dating I went to visit her when she was studying in Spain. I remember the beggers, but there were NONE in front of the doors to a major retail store. I asked her why they didn't get in your face there. She said she watched one do that one time and the Guardia kicked the crap out of him. Ah, Franco.... But I digress....

So what you're basically saying is they should do cuts in the police force ?

Not at all, YOU said money was a problem. So, spent more get better trained cops or spend the same and get less better trained cops.

Haven't read that story. 1000 pesos a month ? Hope it's on top of their wages.

One would hope so.


What is fascinating is it seems you accept that there are bad cops, so instead of fixing that you want to limit the damage they can do instead. Like I am so cheap I would rather take a chance on the cop kicking the crap outta me than PAY what it costs to train him. I mean would you buy two fire trucks that can't shoot water all the way to your house, instead of one that can?

You make the point about the French have these different degrees of police. I guess that model works for them.

Without entering into the gun debate itself, the US has lots of guns around. Cops deal with people with guns regularly, so they carry guns. Like Sean says, "Stupid ___ bringing a knife to a gun fight..."

Mexico is awash in guns. I imagine the cops deal with guns all the time. Now if you want to adopt this low end, unarmed police model, don't put that guy in front of a DIAMOND STORE. There appears to be even less hesitation to kill a cop in MX than the US, so that's stupid. The one news report said they knew the guy was there without a gun. All that poor SOB could have done was caught some lead that they wouldn't have to shoot someone else with. I can't believe the French would put an unarmed cop in a jewelry store.

I mean it is not like they don't have sub gun toting cops around. Make DI pay enough get some firepower or tell them they are on their own. I would ask that they get them matching guns. The mix and match guns looks sloppy.

 

[cvchief]

You'd want to know who cleaned & lubed that weapon, kinda like knowing your reg tech.

Now you sound like you are from TX. I was beginning to think you were lying about that for a minute...

Gov Perry wants to invade Mexico. I'm hoping not. Perry: Send U.S. troops to Mexico to fight drug wars - The Washington Post

Yea, not unless they invite us. From what I get the last time is a touchy subject still. I wouldn't visit if my last name was Scott or Taylor.

 

[gypsyjim]

My wife bought a 1.5 carat diamond at DI in Aruba. It appraised within 3% of what she paid for it here in Florida. We got a decent deal.




Posted using Tap-to-talk....

Most the tourist trade baubles are sold at reasonably fair prices in the tourist traps around the caribbean. NOT the fabulous discount they want customers to believe, but close to what they would sell for at retail here in the US. This is my field, and we tend to check and compare as we travel.

Last but not least : where do you find the money to arm and train the police ? Raise taxes ?

Hey, I hear it here every day of the week: Tax the rich!

 

[Tigerman]

...
Hey, I hear it here every day of the week: Tax the rich!

As we are talking about Mexico, I assume you mean the cartels?

 

[annlaur]

I don't condone the fact that there are bad cops (by which I mean not sufficiently trained and/or corrupt) at all levels and probably everywhere in the world (just as there are bad teachers, carpenters, journalists, waiters, you name it). I just accept it as a fact. A fact that I can't change because it's none of my business as I'm not a citizen and don't even live there, and even if I did I don't think it's as simple an issue as train them and give them guns.

Mexico has many different levels of police. The one we're talking about here is the municipal (local) police, whose job is to wander the streets, regulate traffic, make sure the drunks don't mess around, watch public properties and other minor issues.

In other municipalities on the mainland, that's a dangerous job as anyone with a police uniform seems to be a target for the cartels in some areas.
That is NOT the case in Cozumel.

Mexican cops in other areas of the country deal on a daily basis with outrageously armed and ruthless criminals.
That is NOT the case in Cozumel (and if I'm not mistaken that wouldn't fall under the juridiction of municipal policias anyways).

Watching an expensive jewelry store most anywhere in the world would require some weaponry at least as a deterrent (whether done by public servants or private guards).
Again, this is Cozumel, an island not devoid of crime (there are petty thefts, especially in the low season when people struggle to make a living), but where armed robberies are seldom heard off (which is the reason why this thread exists in the first place ; if Cozumel were anything like Paris or most other city in the world, noone would even talk about it as it would have little "event value").

I bet most of what these jewelry guards/cops on the island do all day is make sure the customers that come in won't barf their excess beer and margarita inside the store or that local kids don't sit in front of the open door to enjoy free air-con and occasionally scare a kleptomaniac tourist. And give directions (the first time I was on the island, I asked a guy watching a bank where Chedraui was and the guy actually walked a few blocks with me ; not sure he was a policeman though, looked more like a private guard to me ; said he was bored and couldn't stand standing in place).

Just because one armed robbery happened (the first on the island in 6 years if what I read is accurate), I don't think it requires taking measures such as arming all municipal cops.

It's not a matter of being cheap. It's a matter of not wasting money for something that is a non-issue. I mean, come on, one robbery in six years. No death. El Pollo and his sidekick will hopefully be caught sooner than later, the store probably has insurance for the stolen merchandise.
Let's say tomorrow a shark kills a diver. Are we gonna kill all the sharks or ban diving because of a rare incidence ?

I'd rather see whatever money is (or isn't) available be used to give better education and wages to public servants. You get what you pay for. Hire honest, smart people, train them, give them enough money to make a decent living so they won't be tempted to quit their job or, worse, become corrupted, and then, give them all the weapons you want. But that would require lots of $$$. And time.

 

[cvchief]

A fact that I can't change because it's none of my business as I'm not a citizen and don't even live there, and even if I did I don't think it's as simple an issue as train them and give them guns.

But we are talking about it.

Mexico has many different levels of police. The one we're talking about here is the municipal (local) police, whose job is to wander the streets, regulate traffic, make sure the drunks don't mess around, watch public properties and other minor issues.

And apparently guard stores with $$$$ of jewelry and diamonds.

Mexican cops in other areas of the country deal on a daily basis with outrageously armed and ruthless criminals.
That is NOT the case in Cozumel (and if I'm not mistaken that wouldn't fall under the juridiction of municipal policias anyways).

Well they do alot of drug raids in the hood and there have been some drug/gun homicides. Last one in front of a club on Melgar. Still a low crime rate for similar size cities in the US.

Watching an expensive jewelry store most anywhere in the world would require some weaponry at least as a deterrent (whether done by public servants or private guards).
Again, this is Cozumel, an island not devoid of crime (there are petty thefts, especially in the low season when people struggle to make a living), but where armed robberies are seldom heard off (which is the reason why this thread exists in the first place ; if Cozumel were anything like Paris or most other city in the world, noone would even talk about it as it would have little "event value").

Seriously? 8 man gangs doing armed smash and grabs and bludgeoning the guards is ho-hum in Paris? Yikes....

I bet most of what these jewelry guards/cops on the island do all day is make sure the customers that come in won't barf their excess beer and margarita inside the store or that local kids don't sit in front of the open door to enjoy free air-con and occasionally scare a kleptomaniac tourist. And give directions (the first time I was on the island, I asked a guy watching a bank where Chedraui was and the guy actually walked a few blocks with me ; not sure he was a policeman though, looked more like a private guard to me ; said he was bored and couldn't stand standing in place).

Just because one armed robbery happened (the first on the island in 6 years if what I read is accurate), I don't think it requires taking measures such as arming all municipal cops.

How about at least the ones guarding diamond stores?

It's not a matter of being cheap. It's a matter of not wasting money for something that is a non-issue. I mean, come on, one robbery in six years. No death. El Pollo and his sidekick will hopefully be caught sooner than later, the store probably has insurance for the stolen merchandise.
Let's say tomorrow a shark kills a diver. Are we gonna kill all the sharks or ban diving because of a rare incidence ?

Well, sure. No sense doing anything about it until someone is killed. I mean someone other than the drug dealers who have been known to kill each other. Now two or three pod people get whacked in the dealers' crossfire then maybe we can think about it? As to the shark, its his ocean not ours...

I'd rather see whatever money is (or isn't) available be used to give better education and wages to public servants. You get what you pay for. Hire honest, smart people, train them, give them enough money to make a decent living so they won't be tempted to quit their job or, worse, become corrupted, and then, give them all the weapons you want. But that would require lots of $$$. And time.

Well wasn't that what I said to begin with? Train 'em, pay 'em and arm 'em? That would be the best. Until then don't assign the rubber gun squad to the jewelry stores....