Change the Stamina Tests

[TMHeimer]

k ellis, I like your post. For one thing you point out that you could snorkel before you could swim. This points out the difference between using fins or not. It is odd that you snorkelled first--perhaps in very shallow water? Next you say that for diving you learned to swim, making my point that it is puzzling why anyone who couldn't swim would consider diving. Third you say basically that folks who need work to get to a standard should be cut some slack and given the help and time to do so. How is your DM class coming?

 

[k ellis]

k ellis, I like your post. For one thing you point out that you could snorkel before you could swim. This points out the difference between using fins or not. It is odd that you snorkelled first--perhaps in very shallow water? Next you say that for diving you learned to swim, making my point that it is puzzling why anyone who couldn't swim would consider diving. Third you say basically that folks who need work to get to a standard should be cut some slack and given the help and time to do so. How is your DM class coming?

Coming along great Let me respond to your post in order here LOL

First. I could not swim and found my fault was fear of drowning. I would not breathe the correct breathing pattern. I am naturally about as close to being neutral in the water as one can get. When I float I do got to do the egg beater but its not hard though with patience. The swim as I learned was more about my breathing. for this reason and my buoyance being naturally well balanced I have always been able to snorkle though I would choose to use a life vest in deep water. I did the snorkle though just fine as my confidence was high since I was able to breathe at all times.

Second As far as diving goes and swimming. With my natural comfort in water and the only real fear really hitting hard being the breathing it was a natural cinch that diving would be simple for me. I was very scared at first in fact I was scared as hell but I was proud and did not want to be seen as a sissy LOL. A man can live through all the trauma I have faced in life and in my career but he cant take a chance on swimming. So I decided to get in and give it a try and I was hooked. From that point on my desire to bond with the underwater world far out weighed my desire to not learn or attempt to learn to swim. I was slow to learn as I really felt no need to learn for the longest as I had all this gear (I know not the smartest thinking but hey you asked for the truth right?) I just woke up one day and decided I loved diving so much because I was in the water then I should learn swimming too. And it was from that point forward I started piecing ideas that worked together. Such as the breathing used for floating and started experimenting with ways to breathe while swimming coming up with a semi breast stroke at first and worked my way from there. Why would I want to dive and not be able to swim first? Why would an airline pilot choose to fly a jumbo jet and go to school for it when he has never even flown a kite? Some things are just natural for people and really there is no reason or rhyme why they turn out the way the do.

Third is the time and consideration factor. I do not believe in saying you cant swim so get out. I Believe every one of us who dive has a fear or a draw back somewhere in life. No one goes through life without some sort of fear and yet most people will find something in their life that gives them meaning and reason. When we were kids we were all afraid of the boogy man in the closet or the police when mom or dad would say to straighten up or they would arrest us. But because we decided to face that fear we met with someone who was patient to walk with us and guide us we not only learned to overcome those fears but also how to walk beside those fears daily and never give them a second thought! Honestly if you ask anyone who has been a dedicated instructor for a significant period of time most will tell you they at some point in their career found a student who was scared of some part of diving yet came in after conquering those fears and become a highly respected diver in the diving community. If no one would sit down and be patient with prospective divers and dive master candidates just think how many less there would be in the world!

 

[bracko]

Personally, I think the tests are ok, but they need to get rid of the 12 point system. I had a DMC that got a 5 in the tread and a 5 in the tow. The DMC only had to finish the other two tests without regard to time for one point each.

Each stamina test should be you must do it in X minutes and Y seconds or less to pass.

anyone who gets a 5 in the tow is most likely fit enough anyway.

but in principle i agree. you *should* have to get at least a 3 in every test, which was our instructors opinion. obviously he couldn't fail us for obtaining 12, but scoring a 1 or 2, however his comment was that we deserve a kick up the ass and to get fitter.

 

[k ellis]

anyone who gets a 5 in the tow is most likely fit enough anyway.

but in principle i agree. you *should* have to get at least a 3 in every test.

Thank goodness I passed when I did if it were to change that. I am a swimmer but I no power swimmer. I got less then a 3 on the swim test and yet I feel as confident as the next guy that I can do the task at hand. I got high marks on everything else just low on the swim.

 

[bracko]

if you're confident in the water and somewhat fit then 6-12 weeks of 'swimming for fitness' classes would ensure your got the required stroke technique training (and improved swimming fitness) to score a 5 or close to.

out of running, cycling and swimming... swimming is by far the most technical sport. in my peak of being unfit I could still towel someone over 50m (especially in a 25m pool) who was far fitter but not technically proficient.

 

[k ellis]

I had no issues with the tow and did quiet well with it. Like say its just I am not a fast swimmer. I got less then a 3 on the swim but I still passed. It would not be fair to tell me that even though I met the requirements I had to redo it until I could get a 3.

 

[TMHeimer]

We can debate this forever. The requirements are to get a 12 (15 now I think, as they have included the equipment swap in the bunch). If the requirements are too slack, it is up to PADI to change them. Swimming is a sport, diving (IMO) is not---it is an activity. A sport needs a competitive element, which swimming provides. Swimming and diving are distant cousins.

 

[k ellis]

We can debate this forever. The requirements are to get a 12 (15 now I think, as they have included the equipment swap in the bunch). If the requirements are too slack, it is up to PADI to change them. Swimming is a sport, diving (IMO) is not---it is an activity. A sport needs a competitive element, which swimming provides. Swimming and diving are distant cousins.

Thank you! I agree.

 

[jnowak100]

Scuba diving is one of the very few recreational sports in which both the trainee and trainer need some kind of training and certification, and there are others that hold greater risk. Think about hunting, skiing, boating, climbing, driving. I just completed my Dive Master Course, and start my IDC this weekend. And with just somewhat more that 100 dives and a few years, I have had many an "adventure" dive which has demonstrated the applicability of many of the "useless" skills and procedures. If anything were to be changed, I would suggest more skills practice and more lifesaving practices, more theory and more knowledge development, more fitness training. Or perhaps, divers should have many more logged dives, more experience and more specialties before starting the DM and IDC courses. But that will all come with time and experience, and just as my daughters spent a lot of time driving with dad before they went driving on their own, I expect to do a lot of diving with other DM's and a lot of teaching with other Instructors before I completely lead dives myself or teach an OW class myself.

 

[Thalassamania]

You can't have more, the authorities claim that it would destroy the diving industry as you know it, and it that would sure cut into what appear to be the ill-gotten gains from insurance premiums.